149 Responses to “Knicks Sign Duhon”

1. Captain Merlin - Jul 4th, 2008 at 9:14 pm …they gave him the WHOLE mle? That’s a pretty unnecessary move, and definitely changes my view of the signing. I was under the impression that it was for just over half the MLE, and was quite content with that. By giving him the full amount, it just sort of makes you wonder if he’s worth it, though it’s not as if the other half would wind up buying a franchise saving player. The only proper direction for the team is to trade the better half of the roster for Darius Miles, so he and Q-Rich can resume that age old fist-to-the-forehead from their Clippers days. Definitely more sound than any alternative. Reply to this comment.

2. Phil Elberfeld - Jul 4th, 2008 at 9:42 pm Another sound decision by Donnie and Mike. Duhon could turn out to be a real fit fo NYK or become a useful backup in the future, Give the Duke grad a chance to blossom under Coach D! He is not a Steve Nash, but he can play the PG until we get someone better. Reply to this comment.

3. Ben R - Jul 4th, 2008 at 9:55 pm Mike K. - Duhon is a better shooter than he showed us last year. He was much better in both of the preceeding seasons. In 2005-2006: 53.8% TS% 49.3% EFG% In 2006-2007: 52.9% TS% 49.9% EFG% He really struggled this year and I think those two seasons are a better indicator of the shooter he really is, solid but not spectacular. Overall I would expect his assists, shot attempts and TS% to all increase under D’Antoni. Even if they don’t, I think its the kind of safe move that we need to make. No more swinging for the fences and striking out. Reply to this comment.

4. Z-man - Jul 4th, 2008 at 10:17 pm I think we overpaid. The original offer was fair. We needed defensive presence in the middle more than a backup PG. Seems we have gotten burned recently with the MLE (2 JJ’s). Please convince me this is different, since it doesnt seem to address our most urgent needs. Reply to this comment.

5. jon abbey - Jul 4th, 2008 at 10:23 pm “The only proper direction for the team is to trade the better half of the roster for Darius Miles, so he and Q-Rich can resume that age old fist-to-the-forehead from their Clippers days.” there’s something to this, but I think you need to go further, also sign Shawn Livingston and just compete for the wheelchair championship for the next couple of years. Reply to this comment.

6. knick fan - Jul 4th, 2008 at 10:26 pm contract is for 2 years so that works out just fine for cap purposes. Reply to this comment.

7. daaarn - Jul 4th, 2008 at 10:26 pm yeah, i think we overpaid too. at least it’s only a 2-year deal tho, so it could’ve been worse Reply to this comment.

8. Ben R - Jul 4th, 2008 at 10:54 pm Unless we were planning on spending the remaining MLE I do not think it really matters. Also I think we had to overpay to get him to sign for just two years. The next player I want us to try and sign is Ramon Sessions. I think there is a chance our full LLE, about 4.5 million over two years, might be enough. I would love to see Sessions as our backup, he was amazing in the 17 games he played last season. Over the last ten games of the season Sessions averaged: 38.7 minutes - 11.5 pts - 11.3 asts - 3.2 tos - on 51.4% TS%. He is only 22 and could be a good project. Reply to this comment.

9. Danisrob - Jul 4th, 2008 at 11:09 pm Keep hearing rumours of Monta Ellis’s interest in playing for the Knicks, how would we accomplish that. Sign and trade with Jamaal Crwford, would we have to offer more than that? Reply to this comment.

10. Dave - Jul 4th, 2008 at 11:21 pm It doesn’t matter that the team overpaid. What matters is the length of the contract and whether or not Duhon can be an effective band-aid while the team retools it’s roster. The answer to both of those is very positive. It’s about transition from Isiah’s Knicks to Donnie’s Knicks - Both Duhon’s contract his basketball ability allown and improve that transition. Good signing and no problems with the contract. Reply to this comment.

11. jon abbey - Jul 4th, 2008 at 11:35 pm “The next player I want us to try and sign is Ramon Sessions.” it looks like he’s under contract with Milwaukee: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/milwaukee.htm Reply to this comment.

12. Ben R - Jul 5th, 2008 at 12:06 am Jon - I thought he was a free agent. That is unfortunate. Reply to this comment.

13. ben bow - Jul 5th, 2008 at 12:23 am this is actually really good. he is definitely overpaid, but it’s not a huge deal because it only lasts 2 years. good job by the knicks. Reply to this comment.

14. D-Lee - Jul 5th, 2008 at 12:33 am I dont know how good this signing is, we all talk about being under the cap for 2010-11 but we all should kiss those Lebron dreams goodbye, there is no way he’s leaving Cleveland look at their cap situation. Back to Duhon he’s nothing special I would really like to see Nate with one full season running the team, if he doesn’t produce, fine draft Scottie Reynolds next season and move Nate and hope someone bites on Randolph, and or Crawford and build our team around Scottie, Danillo and whichever of the Lee, Balkman, Chandler threesome is still on the roster. Reply to this comment.

15. cwod - Jul 5th, 2008 at 2:19 am From Newsday’s Ken Berger: “Just spoke with Duhon’s agent, Kevin Bradbury, who says his client will be the starting point guard for the Knicks next season. ‘There’s no guarantees in life, so he’s going to have to come in and earn it,’ Bradbury said. ‘But we’ve been given all the assurances that they’re not bringing him here to sit on the bench.’ Reply to this comment.

16. Count Zero - Jul 5th, 2008 at 3:15 am Like the move and what it implies…that Stephon has played his last game as a Knickerbocker. Duhon is a pass first PG who just might improve with more pt and D’Antoni as his coach. And the fact that he only got two years makes it a smart move all the way around. Next up: find a taker for Z-Bo. If Walsh pulls that off, I’ll be pretty damn satisfied with his off-season. Reply to this comment.

17. gee the steph fan - Jul 5th, 2008 at 6:41 am Duhon? whatever. Being Pass First doesn’t mean you’re good. And being pass first doesn’t mean you won’t be called on to shoot. Duhon cant score with seconds remaining on the shot clock, he can’t go on a scoring run by himself. marbury can. Success in this league is defined by if your pg can take over a game. C.Paul. D.Williams. B.Davis- Those are people who’s Marbury’s game is like. These guys will pass, but they can shoot and dominate. Duhon? Not so much. I’ll laugh at you so called knick fans when duhon looks like Charlie Ward out there, thats the reason we went to get Marbury anyway. Reply to this comment.

18. knicks fans get a clue - Jul 5th, 2008 at 6:46 am Another sound decision by Donnie and Mike. Duhon could turn out to be a real fit fo NYK or become a useful backup in the future, Give the Duke grad a chance to blossom under Coach D! He is not a Steve Nash, but he can play the PG until we get someone better. We have a PG on the Team. Marbury go look at his career stats, you guys nitpick over duhon, go look at Marbury’s career stats- borderline HallofFame (ask Dime Magazine) How come no one has said, Marbury will have an All Star year and we’ll pick him up next year at a premium? I haven’t read that ANYWHERE. how come? Reply to this comment.

19. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) - Jul 5th, 2008 at 7:16 am Author Comment We have a PG on the Team. Marbury go look at his career stats, you guys nitpick over duhon, go look at Marbury’s career stats- borderline HallofFame (ask Dime Magazine) How come no one has said, Marbury will have an All Star year and we’ll pick him up next year at a premium? I haven’t read that ANYWHERE. how come? Actually Dime Magazine asked me what I thought about Marbury’s Hall of Fame chances. Reply to this comment.

20. Ted Nelson - Jul 5th, 2008 at 7:21 am “Please convince me this is different, since it doesnt seem to address our most urgent needs.” 1. It’s a 2 year deal, not a 5 year deal. 2. The only “need” most posters have talked about all offseason is a “pass-first” PG. I’m not one of those posters; I’d say the only “need” is to build a good team and Duhon seems like a positive step in that direction. Duhon at least fills more of a need that Jared Jeffries did the same offseason Balkman was drafted or Jerome James did the same offseason Frye was drafted and Curry was acquired. 3. Defense doesn’t seem to be the priority, but Duhon is instantly the Knicks’ best defensive guard. Offering him 2 years almost 12 mill if the next best offer was 3 years 11 million is very odd, but maybe Orlando upped the ante. “The next player I want us to try and sign is Ramon Sessions.” Could be someone to think about next offseason depending on how he plays next season (both if he’s actually good and if he’s so good that he’s a hot commodity). Although, if he’s high on our (the fans’) list next offseason it likely means Duhon was a bust. “Next up: find a taker for Z-Bo. If Walsh pulls that off, I’ll be pretty damn satisfied with his off-season.” Amen. If Walsh finds a reasonable deal for Z-Bo I’d call the offseason a success even if Danilo resigns with Milan and Duhon never gets off the bench. A PF with a slightly higher career TS% and eFG% than Jamal Crawford? I don’t see an offense working with him in it no matter how many shots he “creates” (I mean that’s the whole problem: “creating” too many fade away mid-range Js with a hand in his face). Reply to this comment.

21. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) - Jul 5th, 2008 at 7:34 am Author Comment Next up: find a taker for Z-Bo. If Walsh pulls that off, I’ll be pretty damn satisfied with his off-season. That would be an unbelievable offseason. I think moving Z-Bo is going to take more time. I think another team will eventually trade for him, but maybe not until the season starts. Once the season is going there’ll be some team that needs a scoring punch, and Zach Randolph will look attractive at that point. I guess in trading terms, the offseason is like waiting outside in line at a night club, where everyone’s standards are way higher. However the trading deadline is more like last call, when the standards are way lower. Reply to this comment.

22. Ted Nelson - Jul 5th, 2008 at 7:56 am “I’ll laugh at you so called knick fans when duhon looks like Charlie Ward out there” I’m laughing because Charlie Ward had 72 career playoff games vs. Marbury’s 18. Duhon’s already been in 21 after 4 years in the league. It’s not the playground, it’s about winning as a team. Marbury has never shown that he is capable of doing so, Duhon and Ward both have. They’re not nearly as talented as Marbury, but they know the game and do/did what their team needs/needed to win. (There’s also no promise–to paraphrase Duhon’s agent–that Duhon’s the starter, he’s just got a good chance to earn minutes/ the starting job.) “How come no one has said, Marbury will have an All Star year and we’ll pick him up next year at a premium? I haven’t read that ANYWHERE. how come?” Marbury was last an All-Star in 02-03 (although he had a better season in 04-05) and has noticeably lost a step since then. He’s a guy, like Steve Francis and unlike Kidd or Nash, who is unlikely to age gracefully because his primary weapon was athleticism. He’s capable of putting up good numbers next season, but I think it’s a stretch to believe he’s capable of an “All-Star” season at this point (I mean maybe motivation’s been his only problem, but I wouldn’t bet on it as Knicks’ management and even motivated he’s motivated to play the losing brand of basketball he knows not to relearn the game). He’s played a certain style his whole career–dominating the ball, running a lot of pick and roll, losing–and been unwilling and/or unable to embrace change/a complex, coherent offensive system. Having coached Marbury for a few games with the Suns I think D’Antoni is in a much better position to judge Marbury’s personality then myself. I’m fine if he and Walsh decide to cut, sit, trade Marbury, but I could also see him being a somewhat useful player if he brings the right attitude. At this point, I’d say Marbury is best suited for a supporting/bench role, and could even be a 6th man of the year candidate as such (if Manu’s starting). He’s not likely to go for that having been the Knicks’ “franchise player,” but in Boston, LA (Lakers), San Antonio, etc. he might accept a smaller role and be a great fit. Reply to this comment.

23. Ted Nelson - Jul 5th, 2008 at 8:19 am “I guess in trading terms, the offseason is like waiting outside in line at a night club, where everyone’s standards are way higher. However the trading deadline is more like last call, when the standards are way lower.” Good analogy, even later in the offseason standards get lower once teams lose out on their first option free agents. Reply to this comment.

24. z-man - Jul 5th, 2008 at 10:12 am I’m laughing because Charlie Ward had 72 career playoff games vs. Marbury’s 18. Duhon’s already been in 21 after 4 years in the league. It’s not the playground, it’s about winning as a team. Marbury has never shown that he is capable of doing so, Duhon and Ward both have. They’re not nearly as talented as Marbury, but they know the game and do/did what their team needs/needed to win. (There’s also no promise–to paraphrase Duhon’s agent–that Duhon’s the starter, he’s just got a good chance to earn minutes/ the starting job.) “How come no one has said, Marbury will have an All Star year and we’ll pick him up next year at a premium? I haven’t read that ANYWHERE. how come?” Marbury was last an All-Star in 02-03 (although he had a better season in 04-05) and has noticeably lost a step since then. He’s a guy, like Steve Francis and unlike Kidd or Nash, who is unlikely to age gracefully because his primary weapon was athleticism. He’s capable of putting up good numbers next season, but I think it’s a stretch to believe he’s capable of an “All-Star” season at this point (I mean maybe motivation’s been his only problem, but I wouldn’t bet on it as Knicks’ management and even motivated he’s motivated to play the losing brand of basketball he knows not to relearn the game). He’s played a certain style his whole career–dominating the ball, running a lot of pick and roll, losing–and been unwilling and/or unable to embrace change/a complex, coherent offensive system. Having coached Marbury for a few games with the Suns I think D’Antoni is in a much better position to judge Marbury’s personality then myself. I’m fine if he and Walsh decide to cut, sit, trade Marbury, but I could also see him being a somewhat useful player if he brings the right attitude. At this point, I’d say Marbury is best suited for a supporting/bench role, and could even be a 6th man of the year candidate as such (if Manu’s starting). He’s not likely to go for that having been the Knicks’ “franchise player,” but in Boston, LA (Lakers), San Antonio, etc. he might accept a smaller role and be a great fit. I hope ypu are not intimating that if we had Duhon or Ward instead of Marbury the past 4 years we would have been a playoff team. I agree with the poster that said if you have Duhon, Lee and Balkman on the floor, the other 2 need to be offensive studs or you are going to have trouble scoring except in transition. We would be relying heavily on any 2 of Jamal, Nate, Gallinari, Zach and Curry to carry the offense. Unless he improves (which he might) Duhon is best suited to be a 20-25 minute player. If Steph is still on the team (I hope he is until he blows this last chance) he is so much better than Duhon it would be unfortunate if he isn’t given that chance. At the top of his game he is still a top-10 PG in this league. I am not a bigh Steph fan, but he was coming off a year when he had a injury serious enough to require surgery, a mother and father figure dying, a sex scandal, an weird benching, and a management/coaching debacle, and is in a contract year. If he contributes to 10 extra wins this year, everyone, including Eddy, Jamal and Zach, looks better and becomes more tradable. If you dump him just for the sake of being rid of him, and Duhon can’t handle the starting role, then where do you go? Back to Jamal playing the point part time? As for the comment that before the draft, most of the posters were saying that our most pressing need was a pass-first PG, I think that was misinterpreted. I think people were talking more on the lines of hoping to get a Chris Paul-Deron Williams-Steve Nash type, pure PG who score but who also made others better being available to us that high in the draft. We have so many pressing needs that a great PG could mask some of those problems. Duhon is not a great PG and his lack of an offensive game might actually make those needs more glaring at times. Reply to this comment.

25. Italian Stallion - Jul 5th, 2008 at 10:23 am I think this says it all. From the NY Times: “Even before signing Duhon, the Knicks had resolved that they could not move forward while Marbury was still in the locker room. In their brief time with the franchise, Walsh and D’Antoni have learned how incredibly unpopular Marbury is with his teammates.” “D’Antoni has told friends that the Knicks are much better than their 23-59 record last season indicated and that team chemistry was the greatest problem. Cutting ties with Marbury is viewed as a critical first step in changing a losing culture.” Reply to this comment.

26. cwod - Jul 5th, 2008 at 10:25 am “As for the comment that before the draft, most of the posters were saying that our most pressing need was a pass-first PG, I think that was misinterpreted. I think people were talking more on the lines of hoping to get a Chris Paul-Deron Williams-Steve Nash type, pure PG who score but who also made others better being available to us that high in the draft.” Misinterpreted? At what point was getting a “great” PG, such as Paul, Williams, or Nash, even an actual possibility? Also, as has been mentioned previously on a thread, many Bulls players thought Duhon should have been their starter, except Skiles hated him. To state that Duhon is strictly a 20-25 minute player seems premature. We need to see what he can do with a coach who doesn’t hate him. Reply to this comment.

27. cwod - Jul 5th, 2008 at 10:30 am To clarify, I don’t think any of the guards taken after Rose could ever be one of those PGs. Reply to this comment.

28. DMull - Jul 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am Best part of the Duhon signing is I believe it should basically squash the idea of Lee for Felton. To complain about a two year deal at this point would be crazy. Personally I liked the idea of taking a flyer on Livingston/Telfair but this was by far the safest route and likely the best move. I’m not huge on Duhon, I believe he is a very limited player..but I’m willing to allow Walsh and D’Antoni a chance to figure this all out. Unlike with Isiah I believe Walsh has a vision and a direction and I’m not going to jump on him for signing a guy to a two year deal. Reply to this comment.

29. Z-man - Jul 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am To clarify, I don’t think any of the guards taken after Rose could ever be one of those PGs. I think that Mayo and Westbrook are going to surprise lots of people and become stars and excellent passers, but we can agree to disagree there. My guess is that the knicks would have gone for either of those 2 before piking Gallinari, but who knows? Bayless, Gordon and Augustin were also in the mix if we traded down, but are less likely to become stars; I would take any of those guys over Duhon, though. All of these guys have potential to be very good PGs. Duhon was drafted in the 2nd round and couldn’t beat out Heinrich for a starting job. If Skiles (a former pass-first PG) hated Duhon, that worries me, since he hated Eddy Curry and turned out to be right. Reply to this comment.

30. cwod - Jul 5th, 2008 at 10:53 am Yes, I think the Knicks would have gone for Mayo or Westbrook, had they been available. Still, I don’t think either of them will be as good as the three guards you mentioned. What does being drafted in the second round have to do with anything? Also, Skiles hated Duhon because he partied too much, not because he couldn’t play. Reply to this comment.

31. George from Scottsdale - Jul 5th, 2008 at 12:07 pm The Knicks have two goals:get under the cap ASAP and their goal is 2010,terrific;build a core team;Marbury is insignificant,he fits neither criteria unless they can move him for value,Duhon might be a piece,but not likely a core player.Golden State may provide an opportunity to speed-up the cap situation.They need to replace Davis’ 20+pts-Crawford,who’s addition might also pacify Ellis.Throw in Curry,as GS’ price of admission,who actually works well offensively with Craw and who’s lack of defense might not even be noticed by Nelson. Nelson’s situation adds to this trade possiblity as he’s at the end of his run.In return the K’s get Harrington,Perovic,Wright and Belinelli, all with 1 years except Per,who’s a 2!GS is giving up beaucoup youth but none of these may contribute for the remainder of Nelson’s regime. The #’s work for both teams.Adding Steph and Rose’s contracts the K’s are under the cap next year. Now select your core-Gallinari, Chandler,Lee?? Reply to this comment.

32. bwizzle - Jul 5th, 2008 at 12:25 pm I like the signing. I am not worried about the money issue, the 2 factors that are key are length of contract and culture change. We have him for 2 years, perfect time to test him out and see what he has without locking up money for the upcoming free agents. Second, and more importanly, the culture had to change. The leader on the floor is the point guard and as one source said, both Walsh and d’antoni realize how unpopular STARBURY is. This was crippling the teams on the court play bc no one wanted to play with this guy. With Duhon you have a floor general that can spread the floor, play some defense and distribute the ball. Thats exactly what a point guard should do. Not what STARBURY did which held the ball for 20 seconds. looking forward to seeing what else Walsh does. Reply to this comment.

33. NYC3D - Jul 5th, 2008 at 1:02 pm Everyone is so down on StepH, but when you take a good look all of the free agents we are trying to bring in to replace him none aren’t close to or better then him including Duhon. I agree that Marbury has worn out his welcome in New York, but he is not the blame for the Knicks. It was the management:(Isiah, Dolan)You can not build a franchise around Eddy Curry, he has to many flaews in his game…terrible passer out of the double team, terrible fould shooter, doesn’t rebound just to name a few. When you brought Steph in you were suppose to surround him with athletes and shooters..you don’t go out and get another ballhandler like crawford..you get someone like mike miller or raja bell..a spot up shooter. Stehp has always been on subar teams.So all the Knick fans that hate his guts right now trust me you will be saying we should have given him a chance when he is on another team producing. For example Chauncey Billiups had a terrible 5 seasons in the leaugue, all of a sudden you surround him with players that compliments his game with a great system he wins and becomes an All Star. As a former player i can say that you don’t just lose your ability over night. Marbury has alot of game left in him, and we are going to see that if not in a Knick uniform then somewhere else. Reply to this comment.

34. Jbug187 - Jul 5th, 2008 at 1:15 pm More and more I think next years off season will be a much better opportunity to clean house and move all of our bad contracts. I think most would agree that D’Antoni will make these bums look better this season than they did last season under Isiah. That should make them a little more appealing to other teams and hopefully easier to move. I just can’t imagine the trade value for these guys being any lower than it is right now. We have one throw away season coming up where we can try to make our ‘junk’ look as nice as possible in an attempt to move it. Also, I hope Walsh and D’Antoni don’t pin their futures on signing LeBron since it looks like a longshot. Either way getting under the cap and showing some constraint when signing contracts will help the franchise. One day we’ll be back on top. Reply to this comment.

35. Kikuchiyo - Jul 5th, 2008 at 1:38 pm I like it. Charlie Ward was successful because of others players, of course, but that’s exactly the situation here, only the “other players” aren’t here yet. What I mean is that Duhon allows the Knicks to have some stability at a position that is more or less unoccupied at present (go away, Starbury), but his presence does not preclude any further moves. If when we finally get a bona fide superstar that player turns out to be a PG, Duhon sits and his contract is no problem. But it is more likely that the action in trades and signings for the next two years will at other positions. I am happy to see a little patience and realism from management. The candy store signings drove me crazy. By the way, Zach and Marbury mutually confirm the problem of “talent” as the only consideration for signing a player. Yes, both players seem to offer us the best chance to score on any given possession. But, by now, it seems beyond obvious that the Knicks are a better team when neither player wears the orange and blue. Reply to this comment.

36. Z-man - Jul 5th, 2008 at 2:40 pm Re: Steph being unpopular with teammates, I don’t know how true this reallyis, or who he is unpopular with. If it’s Q-Poor, Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph or Eddy, who cares? None of those guys are model teammates. If it’s Lee or Jamal, 2 guys who gave their all every night, I’d be more concerned; it seemed that Lee and Steph actualy had pretty good chemistry when on the court together, as did Steph and Jamal. Remember, after Isiah was free of Steph, the team didn’t exactly come together, and anyone who uses the fact that Isiah played Steph after that so-called team vote as an excuse for mailing in games thereafter has no credibility to begin with. Reply to this comment.

37. Captain Merlin - Jul 5th, 2008 at 3:19 pm Well, given Kikuchiyo’s assertion that Duhon is the second coming of Chuck Ward, I suppose what we’ve got to look forward to is 3 or 4 years of mediocre, but coherent point play, followed by a few more putrid years during which he makes everyone forget how nearly decent he was for a few years, and also manages to piss off a large segment of fans, with disparaging comments (Ward’s comments about Jews in the early 00’s). Way to lay out a golden future, Kikuchiyo, really… Reply to this comment.

38. Count Zero - Jul 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm Well, given Kikuchiyo’s assertion that Duhon is the second coming of Chuck Ward, I suppose what we’ve got to look forward to is 3 or 4 years of mediocre, but coherent point play, followed by a few more putrid years during which he makes everyone forget how nearly decent he was for a few years, and also manages to piss off a large segment of fans, with disparaging comments (Ward’s comments about Jews in the early 00’s). Way to lay out a golden future, Kikuchiyo, really… Given that he only got a two-year contract, that scenario seems mighty unlikely. Bottom line on Steph is he has worn out his welcome everywhere he has ever been. Why is that? Because he’s a me-first player? Because he’s a poor teammate? Maybe so. More likely, it’s simply because he’s a dumbass. A PG is supposed to provide floor leadership, settle things down when runs happen, ensure a good trip when you need it most. When your PG is a flat out dumbass, it’s very hard for him to do any of those things. Thus the story of Steph’s career is: If we need a bucket real bad, I’ll go get it myself. Problem with that is he no longer has the first step to pull it off, and he’s never been all that great a shooter. Couple that with the fact he only knows how to do one thing (screen roll), that he couldn’t guard a grandmother with bad knees, and that he is a legend in his own mind, and you immediately realize his salary is at least triple his actual value on the court. I’ll give anyone 3 to 1 Steph never plays in another all-star game no matter where he goes. His “glory days” (such as they were) are all well behind him. Reply to this comment.

39. Captain Merlin - Jul 5th, 2008 at 5:02 pm Count Zero, that was more or less my go at being a snarky pain in the ass. Whenever Charlie Ward is brought up, that instinct is just automatically triggered. I do in fact see the Duhon signing as a sensible one, given the brevity of the deal, and the fact that he does not seem like the sort of player to cause much ill will or stir up any chaos. Perfect for guiding the team through the two years of mediocrity before the supposed light at the end of the tunnel in 2010. Reply to this comment.

40. tastycakes - Jul 5th, 2008 at 6:53 pm I’m stunned that anyone is defending Marbury at this point. The guy has been nothing but cancer over the past two seasons. He isn’t a part of the Knicks’ long term plans. His disinterested attitude and declining skills don’t make the Knicks better in the short term. I’d rather just kick the guy to the curb already. Do you really think he makes the Knicks better as starter than Duhon would? How much better? He’s taking us to the playoffs? Is that even the best case scenario? Like the Duhon signing. Low risk. Young player who has done well with limited minutes. Doesn’t need to be the primary option on offense. Isiah would have targeted Bassy over Duhon. It’s a new organization. Reply to this comment.

41. Ray - Jul 5th, 2008 at 7:29 pm Starbury is just not the answer. Neither is Duhon. So…where do we go from here? We have a glut at the PG. ( Marbury,Nate,Duhon) Something is due to happen soon. I definitely dont think Duhon is a starter. Can we move Z-Bo? Only time will tell…someone gotta to take that guy off our hands to D Lee can get his proper minutes. Its going to be an odd season and i really dont want to watch the same team playing all winter. I look forward to seeing Danillo playing but what else is there to look forward to. I guess ill be watching a good mix of NEts and Knicks games this season because the Nets will be exciting to watch. Reply to this comment.

42. Z-man - Jul 5th, 2008 at 7:32 pm Tastycakes, In my mind there is no doubt that Steph means more wins than no Steph for this current team. If it is 1 or 2 wins, I can agree with you, although I would still rather get something for his expiring contract. If it is 10 or more wins, then it would be bad business to let him go for nothing. I don’t know whether his skills are actually declining. Funny, when Lee showed minimal, if any development in his third season, his fans on this site were quick to bring up the possible effects of a lingering injury from last years. Steph needed surgery and it was said by his surgeon remarked afterwards that there were a lot of issues with his ankle but he should make a full recovery. He’s only 31 and it remains to be seen whether he has slowed down or not. Since there really is nothing to lose by keeping him until the trading deadline, why not see what he has and give him an opportunity to play in the D’Antoni system? http://www.nypost.com/seven/02092008/sports/knicks/cuts_deep__steph_koed__by_surgery_337384.htm Unless Gallinari is a stud from day 1, I think Marbury can mean more wins than you think. Would you concede that if it is 10 or more that yuo would let him play out his contract? I will say again that before Marbury hurt his shoulder in 06-07 he and the team were playing excellent ball. He was not only playing injured last season, he was playing for a terrible coach who alienated everyone on the team by mid-season. Larry Brown had his mind made up about Steph before he got there. THERE IS NO LONG-TERM RISK OF KEEPING STEPH ON THE TEAM UNTIL FEBRUARY, OR UNTIL HE SHOWS HE IS A NEGATIVE UNDER THE NEW SYSTEM. Reply to this comment.

43. Thomas B. - Jul 5th, 2008 at 8:21 pm “The Knicks over paid for Duhon.” -Various posters No they did not. Lets try to put this into persective. Remember these signings? http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/14/sports/basketball/14knicks.html and http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/28/AR2006072801323.html So think about it this way, Burger King James has made 16.2 million in three seasons with the knicks. In that time he has averaged 29 games per season, 2.49 points per game, 1.83 rebounds, 2.08 fouls per game, 0.43 blocks, 0.17 assists, and 7.8 minutes per game. Or… $23,684 per minute $186,206 per game $746,543 per point $101,250 per rebound 2,879 trips to the drive thru over three years. Before taxes. Jared Jay-free has been paid 10,847,200 in two seasons. He has been paid $ 84,743 per game, $ 22,047 per point, and $22,551 per rebound. If Duhon just supplies his career average for minutes, points, and assists, he will be a bargain compared to those two. And dont get me started on what Q and Curry did last year… Reply to this comment.

44. Thomas B. - Jul 5th, 2008 at 8:24 pm and also manages to piss off a large segment of fans, with disparaging comments (Ward’s comments about Jews in the early 00’s). Way to lay out a golden future, Kikuchiyo, really… What did he say about Jews? Reply to this comment.

45. Ted Nelson - Jul 5th, 2008 at 9:38 pm Z-Man, Steph has hardly ever won in his career, and whenever he’s been replaced his former team has been instantly better… what gives you the impression he’s worth 10 wins?????? Try reading my posts before jumping to conclusions about what I’m saying. Marbury has played one style of basketball throughout his career: dominated the ball, pick and rolled, and lost. The Knicks don’t want to play this way. Steph doesn’t know any other way to play. Steph is, therefore, not a good PG for the Knicks. Doesn’t matter what happened for the last 4 years… the team’s moving forward. Reply to this comment.

46. Z-man - Jul 5th, 2008 at 10:07 pm Ted, I did read your post; am I allowed to disagree with your premises? Where did I say that that D’Antoni had to play a style suited to Steph or any other player? I merely said give him a brief opportunity to fit into the system. By buying him out, you get nothing in return; by holding on to him, you can possibly package his expiring contract in a trade come February (his prorated salary would be less burdensome for another team to take on, I believe). Now that I’ve read it twice, I still disagree with your argument that he can only play one style, or for that matter, even one position. Right now, if healthy, he’s probably already as good as Jamal at the 2, which granted isn’t saying much. I think too much is being made of him being a “loser” or a “cancer” and that the “get rid of him now at all cost” mentality can cost us both wins in the short term and assets in the long term. If this wasn’t a contract year where Steph had a lot to gain from fitting in and being compliant, I wouldn’t be making these arguments. Reply to this comment.

47. GiantsKnickFan420 - Jul 5th, 2008 at 10:22 pm This is a good move, we didnt overpay, lol we are already over the cap, the idea is length not dollars, 2 yr deal is great the amount is irrelevent, its New York people. Fact is we need someone whos a pass 1st player, Nate while hes getting better, is a better shooter than creator. Marbury isnt a leader and Crawford’s a SG with handle, not a true PG. Reply to this comment.

48. Ted Nelson - Jul 5th, 2008 at 10:42 pm Z-Man Over the past 11 seasons, when has Marbury ever been worth 10 wins? When has he ever played in any system besides the dominating the ball, pick-and-roll, whatever Steph wants to do style successfully? In both cases the answer is never. Could it happen, sure, but after 11 seasons I wouldn’t bet the franchise on it. If nothing else Duhon is a solid back-up plan behind an unpredictable, hard to please PG who’s never bothered to learn the game. “Right now, if healthy, he’s probably already as good as Jamal at the 2, which granted isn’t saying much.” Again, I said I think that Steph can be a useful player if he’s not given 40 mpg to dominate the ball. I just don’t see it as very likely that he changes his ways playing for the franchise that’s bent over backwards for him every step of the way and has zero identity at this point. As far as being an asset, I agree that it would be better to trade him–say for to Cleveland for other expiring contracts and a future first rounder–but after all the news about the Knicks wanting to cut him I don’t think any team will bite, figuring they can pick him up for the vet’s minimum as a free agent in a few weeks. We’ll have to see what Walsh’s plan is, but as I’ve said 3 or 4 times now I don’t much care if Steph’s cut/traded/bought out or gets the chance to redeem himself. Reply to this comment.

49. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) - Jul 5th, 2008 at 11:02 pm Author Comment …you can possibly package his expiring contract in a trade come February… Even on the slight chance Marbury can turn it around (and he would have to do so on sooo many fronts: play a different type of offense, come back from injury & aging, become a model teammate, accept a lesser role/minutes, play better defense) what’s the purpose? Anything gained from this wouldn’t help the Knicks in the long term. Re-signing Marbury isn’t in the long term plan (it would kill our cap). And any trade would require the team to accept contracts of equal amount. And even if you traded for contracts/late 1st as was mentioned above, those contracts would all have to expire for it to be worth it. What are the odds that all of the above would come to fruition? Considering the harm Marbury could do (eat up minutes, play selfishly, cause a rift among teammates, undermine the coach’s respectability, make a bigger mockery of the franchise, alienate fans, etc.) it hardly seems worth it. Again I don’t see what’s to gain here. In the absolute best case dream scenario a late first round pick. But most likely nothing or worse. Reply to this comment.

50. Frank - Jul 5th, 2008 at 11:57 pm I also see no downside to at least keeping his contract on the books. If you really don’t want him around the team, just tell him to stay home. But why not keep his contract around for trade bait later in the year? There’s always an owner that wants to save $$ and might trade a contract that ends a year later (ie. after 2010 season) in order to get that contract off the books purely from a business perspective. I also don’t see why Steph can’t play at the 2 with Jamal coming off the bench. Steph ended up guarding 2s a lot of the time anyway, and he certainly couldn’t be worse than Jamal as a defender even if he’s smaller. A 4 guard rotation with Steph, Nate, Jamal, and Duhon wouldn’t be the worst 4 guard rotation out there. Then you rotate Curry, Lee, Randolph, Balkman, and Chandler, throw some minutes to the kid Gallinari. And if it doesn’t work out, then you can buy him out or trade him for peanuts. It’s not like we have much young talent to develop in the backcourt (ie. like we do with Lee, Balkman, and Chandler in the frontcourt) so giving Steph minutes doesn’t bother me. Admittedly, part of me still has some sympathy for Marbury — he’s been a Knick fan his whole life, never wanted to do anything but play for his team, and now he’s a pariah. Very tragic. I almost feel like after the toxic relationships he had with LB and Isiah, maybe a new coach might help him change his game for the better. Reply to this comment.

51. Z - Jul 5th, 2008 at 11:58 pm “I don’t see what’s to gain here. In the absolute best case dream scenario a late first round pick. But most likely nothing or worse.” KB– Caleb, in his free agent round up, alluded to the possibility of a team like the Rockets looking to move Yao or TMac at the deadline. It seems every year there is a high-profile star making trade demands. Marbury’s expiring contract has more value than just a late first round pick because of the money it could potentially save a team. The Lakers had no use for the underperforming Kwame Brown last summer, but they didn’t buy him out. They turned him into a cornerstone on a Western Conference champion team. I suppose that if you have no interest in turning Marbury into another max contract player, then buying out Marbury would be a reasonable rebuilding step. It certainly wouldn’t hurt the team long term. But it seems that his potential value in February is being dismissed because of his need for improvement, which there is much room for, but it doesn’t in anyway diminish the fact that he is a $22 million expiring contract. Reply to this comment.

52. Frank - Jul 6th, 2008 at 12:13 am Just to expand on what Z and I are talking about, imagine the following trade, which is not ridiculous in my mind: Sacramento, for instance, realizes their team right now has very little chance of competing. Let’s say it’s mid-season next year and they are looking like a serious lottery team. They want to make a big splash in free agency after next season to go with Kevin Martin and all. But they are saddled with contracts that end after the 2009-2010 season like Shareef, Brad Miller, and Kenny Thomas (otherwise known as ~$25M due in 2009-2010 for 3 guys that have no business being on a rebuilding team). And perhaps the Maloofs would like to save that $25M or use that money for actually good players. Would it be so ridiculous to trade them Marbury for those 3 and perhaps a lottery unprotected 1st and couple of 2nd rounders? And then during the following season you are armed with 3 more huge expiring contracts that could be used in other trades. Of course this is all Dolan’s money that would be paid out — I of course don’t care about his money. Reply to this comment.

53. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) - Jul 6th, 2008 at 12:25 am Author Comment Frank - those three contracts wouldn’t do you any good though, since you want them to expire. So yes if someone were desperate to get under the cap this year, you lose a draft pick (un-protected no way) by not having Marbury on the books. I guess in that scenario keeping Marbury would be useful, but I don’t see that as being a likely situation (albeit possible). I would probably be happy with the team sending Marbury home knowing there was 0 chance he’d play with the team. But the Knicks tried that with Steve Francis - and brought him back when they were hit by injury. I’m not sure I’d want that. However it’s possible that Walsh/D’Antoni are strong enough to abide by their decision, where Isiah Thomas clearly wasn’t. And I could see them keeping Marbury on the books & just sending him home for the season unless a deal like the one you mentioned came up. One thing we should be wary - only the NY media is reporting that the Knicks will buy out Marbury. They’ve been wrong so often, that it may not even be in the minds of the Knick front office. Reply to this comment.

54. Count Zero - Jul 6th, 2008 at 12:38 am Just to expand on what Z and I are talking about, imagine the following trade, which is not ridiculous in my mind: Sacramento, for instance, realizes their team right now has very little chance of competing. Let’s say it’s mid-season next year and they are looking like a serious lottery team. They want to make a big splash in free agency after next season to go with Kevin Martin and all. But they are saddled with contracts that end after the 2009-2010 season like Shareef, Brad Miller, and Kenny Thomas (otherwise known as ~$25M due in 2009-2010 for 3 guys that have no business being on a rebuilding team). And perhaps the Maloofs would like to save that $25M or use that money for actually good players. Would it be so ridiculous to trade them Marbury for those 3 and perhaps a lottery unprotected 1st and couple of 2nd rounders? And then during the following season you are armed with 3 more huge expiring contracts that could be used in other trades. Of course this is all Dolan’s money that would be paid out — I of course don’t care about his money. I get this logic and can see some sense in it but…assuming a scenario like this falls into our lap (which is a big assumption) I now have three more players I don’t want. I then have to hold on to them and wait for the opp to trade their expirings in ‘10-’11 — which means I’m tying up three roster spots with guys I have no intention of using on the court, and who will likely be unhappy about the fact that they’re not getting any minutes. (Remember that D’Antoni is not a “play 10 guys” kind of coach.) Or, I can cut/buyout one or more of them…which is no different than doing the same with Marbury now except I have delayed the inevitable. I just don’t see any scenario in which Stephon’s expiring contract brings me back something I actually want. As you yourself said, Shareef, Miller and Kenny Thomas have no business being on a rebuilding team — well, we ARE a rebuilding team. What the hell do we want with them? It seems like you are advocating trading expiring contracts to get more expiring contracts — which you can then trade for what? More expiring contracts? I admit it does make a certain amount of sense in a weird sort of way…but not enough sense for me to actually get behind it. Reply to this comment.

55. jon abbey - Jul 6th, 2008 at 12:40 am “only the NY media is reporting that the Knicks will buy out Marbury. They’ve been wrong so often, that it may not even be in the minds of the Knick front office.” the NY Times is the one primarily reporting this, they shouldn’t be put in the same category as the Post and the Snooze in terms of (un)reliability. Reply to this comment.

56. Frank - Jul 6th, 2008 at 12:47 am Frank - those three contracts wouldn’t do you any good though, since you want them to expire. So yes if someone were desperate to get under the cap this year, you lose a draft pick (un-protected no way) by not having Marbury on the books. I guess in that scenario keeping Marbury would be useful, but I don’t see that as being a likely situation (albeit possible). I would probably be happy with the team sending Marbury home knowing there was 0 chance he’d play with the team. But the Knicks tried that with Steve Francis - and brought him back when they were hit by injury. I’m not sure I’d want that. However it’s possible that Walsh/D’Antoni are strong enough to abide by their decision, where Isiah Thomas clearly wasn’t. And I could see them keeping Marbury on the books & just sending him home for the season unless a deal like the one you mentioned came up. One thing we should be wary - only the NY media is reporting that the Knicks will buy out Marbury. They’ve been wrong so often, that it may not even be in the minds of the Knick front office. I meant that Sac-town gives US a 1st round pick, not the other way around. And you’re not trading expiring contracts for later expiring contracts — you’re trading expiring contracts for later expiring contracts AND an unprotected 1st round pick. And teams can be desperate to get under the cap for basketball reasons, but also to get under the cap and luxury tax just for money reasons (see: Phoenix Suns and other teams that are just trading away stuff just to save money). Maybe Donald Sterling wants to save himself $20M if his Baron Davis experiment goes poorly. These guys are super-rich but $20-25M is nothing to sneeze at. Especially in this crappy economy, the deep Dolan pockets might be useful. Atlanta would potentially be a good trade partner — their ownership situation is a mess. Reply to this comment.

57. GiantsKnickFan420 - Jul 6th, 2008 at 2:23 am keeping marbury is still an option. D’antoni has already been on record as saying that he sees Marbury as a 2. Maybe he does stay or maybe we can be traded. But i dont think its a slam dunk the knicks just want to eat that 22mil and get nothing for it, if marbury plays nice he can have value during the deadline with his talent and expiring contract. Or he can continue to be a malcontent and get put on waivers at basically any point of the yr, we’d just be doing other teams a favor cutting him now. Reply to this comment.

58. Ted Nelson - Jul 6th, 2008 at 8:39 am Z-Man, Sorry for being such an ass last night: I was drinking and in a foul mood. I’m not really strongly against having Marbury on the team (probably could have fooled you), just presenting the argument for why he shouldn’t be. Walsh has tons of experience running a team (and dealing with “character issue” guys) and D’Antoni’s coached Steph before, plus they’ve both actually met Steph and the other Knicks, and know a whole lot more about basketball than I do… so I’m comfortable with whatever they decide. “Duhon is not a great PG and his lack of an offensive game might actually make those needs more glaring at times.” Duhon’s definitely not a GREAT PG, and not really even great at any one thing. Sure I would have rather gotten Chris Paul, but (short of trying an Augustin/ Bayless in the draft or hoping a Telfair/ Livingston has for some reason been hiding his real game) there wasn’t much chance of that. Given their situation and what they had to work with, I agree with Dave’s logic that this is the sort of low-risk, solid signing the Knicks needed. Duhon’s been pretty consistent and reliable over his career and brought a solid all-around game that’s helped his team win. Between Dooling, Arroyo, and the other PGs on the market for the MLE I don’t think anyone brings the combination of outside shooting, passing, running a team, and defense that Duhon does. Even on the trade market–where of course you’re going to have to give something up–I don’t know if anyone had that combo… maybe a Lowry, Crittendon, etc. can develop it and even develop into a better player than Duhon but there’s no maybe with Duhon and he cost the Knicks no asset besides the MLE. I do hope Duhon takes at least a small step forward and has a career year for D’Antoni: nothing spectacular, just a slight improvement on his 05-06 when WoW loved his season and he posted his highest PER (only 12.9) as well. Of course there’s a small chance he could take a large step forward: Nash had comparable ast-rates, PERs, even worse TO-rate, and only 1 season where he had significantly more pts/36 his first 4 seasons in the league, so here’s hoping! Kidding, but if he can be a very poorman’s Nash it should do. I’m really not too worried about scoring. The Knicks have plenty of guys who can put points on the board, one of their biggest problems has been that some of their high volume “scorers” are remarkably inefficient. D’Antoni is either going to have to turn Randolph and Crawford into efficient scorers or cut down their FGAs significantly (by sitting them or changing their roles, assuming they’re not traded). I’m not holding my breath that Randolph and Crawford turn it around, so why not concentrate on getting the ball to the Knicks’ most efficient scorers: Curry and Lee? -Curry might also have to make some adjustments to get quicker shots, but he’s already so devastatingly efficient that I think it’s a better bet than Randolph/Crawford. -Lee efficiently scored 13.4 pts/36 last season. In a presumably faster paced D’Antoni system which should take better advantage of his movement without the ball and (hopefully) feature him a tiny bit more, he might be able to up that by 2 pts/36 to 15.4 or around Joe Johnson’s pts/36 in 04-05 (Johnson has a much different game but was also a 4th year player that season, the culmination of a progression in pts/36 from 10.9 to 12.8 to 14.8 to 15.6). -Between Danilo, Chandler, and Q, D’Antoni should find two wings capable of putting up 15+ pts/36 and hitting from the outside. -GIven that Crawford’s been the Knicks’ “leader” and every coach he’s had in NY has loved him he’s pretty likely to get a sizable role in the backcourt, I just hope he responds the way he did to Larry Brown and posts numbers slightly better than his 15.9 pts/36 on .544 TS% under LB. -Nate should be good for 17.5 pts/36 (his 07-08 total) off the bench but hopefully at his 06-07 efficiency (.552 TS%, .513 eFG%, and .390 3P%). -Balkman can be sort of the group’s (smaller, more perimeter oriented but maybe better) Steven Hunter if last season was a glitch and he builds on his rookie year. -If Randolph isn’t traded I suppose Curry’s not going to be in shape for 40 mpg, so if Chandler and Balkman aren’t sufficient to fill out the frontcourt rotation he’s going to have to play some minutes and replace Curry’s scoring at a much less efficient clip. (I don’t expect that D’Antoni is going to come into camp envisioning Randolph as a benchwarmer, but I really wish he would.) Assuming a slight increase if D’Antoni’s going to go up-tempo and install a more efficient offense than just about any of these guys have played in, my rotation would look something like this in terms of pts/36 Curry and/or Randolph…………..20+, say 22 Nate……………………………………18 Crawford……………………………..16.5 Lee……………………………………..15.4 Danilo/Chandler/Q………………..15 Danilo/Chandler/Q………………..15 Balkman………………………………12 Count Duhon for 12-13 pts/36