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Recent #6 Picks

May 20th, 2008 by Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) | Comments | Permalink | Trackback |

With the Knicks slotted to pick 6th in this year’s draft, I was curious what kind of player the team might expect to get with that position. So I looked at the #6 picks in the last 10 drafts.

I Buoni (The Good): Chris Kaman, Martell Webster, Josh Childress, Brandon Roy, Shane Battier
Unfortunately there are no superstars in this group. Chris Kaman had a break out season this year, but it was “the best player on a bad team” syndrome. Roy and Webster are young pieces in Portland’s future, but neither have eye-popping stats. Battier has always been a solid defender, but hasn’t contributed enough on offense to make him more than an average starter. Josh Childress became Atlanta’s 6th man.

I Brutti (The Bad): Dajuan Wagner, DerMarr Johnson, Robert Traylor
Traylor looked good his first year, but ate his way out of the league. No one can say what DerMarr Johnson’s career might have been if not for that car accident. Despite the accident he managed to stick around in the league for a few seasons, but never lived up to his pre-injury potential. Dajuan Wagner has his picture in the dictionary next to the word “bust.”

I Giovanni (The Young): Yi Jianlian
A little too early to judge the foreigner, especially since he’s not yet old enough to order a Milwaukee’s Best.

It seems that the Knicks aren’t likely to get a great player here, but the odds are they can get a quality starter. There’s the possibility of All Star talent available as Richard Hamilton, Luol Deng, and Damon Stoudamire were recent #7 picks. The last time the Knicks picked 6th was 1982 when they grabbed shooting guard Trent Tucker.

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254 Responses to “Recent #6 Picks”

  1. Avatar daaarn -

    i say we trade down or trade away the pick. but honestly, at this point, i’m just praying we get under the cap by ‘10 so we have at least a chance (doesn’t matter if it’s a good or bad one) to play in the free agent market.

    Reply to this comment.
  2. Avatar villainx -

    I disagree regarding B Roy. He is eye popping good.

    Reply to this comment.
  3. Avatar Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) -
    Author Comment

    You’re right, I might be selling Roy a little short. He was an All Star last year in only his second season. At this point he’s probably the best of the bunch.

    Reply to this comment.
  4. Avatar danny -

    the 6 pick puts us in a bad position. Point guards will be gone by then -even Mayo will be gone. For me, it means we must trade Stephon Marbury, without any doubt. If we got a top 3 or #5 pick, we could have drafted a pg, groomed him under stephon this year, then let Stephon walk away next season. Now Stephon will hold that cards, he’ll be able to create a decent season for himself - as this is his FA year - and force the Knicks hand, do they re-sign him to get more of that productivity (and lose cap space), or let him go, and have nothing at the PG position (Nate Robinson can never be a starter)?

    So if he stays, the team could see a positive bump next season (35-40 wins) but then a drop the following season (25-30 wins) and remember, no lottery pick in 2010. -

    We may be under the cap in 2010, but we’ll be terrible and be un-appealing on every level for a FA to sign.

    so in conclusion, tonight was just terrible.

    Reply to this comment.
  5. Avatar bud -

    ok post however i feel that it’s rather inappropriate to demean dajuan wagner here, especially juxtaposing him as you did with dermarr johnson, who despite being involved in a major car accident, did not go through even remotely as many debilitating physical maladies as wagner, who was hospitalized numerous times and eventually had his colon removed.

    i love the sixth pick in this draft. hopefully one of the top five teams decides to go with size and takes brock lopez, leaving us at least one out of skip bayless, eric gordon, and ovinton ziegler - three guys who might have a shot at making a few allstar games one day.

    Reply to this comment.
  6. Avatar Billy W. -

    6th pick plus Zach Randolph for Mike Redd and the 8th pick. Take best point avaiable (Westbrook/Augustin?).

    Ball out with #8, Redd, Chandler, Lee, Curry - Jamal as sixth man.

    Reply to this comment.
  7. Avatar danny -

    why would the bucks make that trade?

    Reply to this comment.
  8. Avatar oboogie -

    everyone seems to be poo pooing the 6th pick. we may not draft an allstar, but i am not going to underestimate donnie walsh. he will take the best player or make a solid move, such as trading the 6th and a big contract for an expiring contract, a late 1st rounder and a future 1st rounder.

    i do not remember where i read it, but someone posted a statistic showing that ~80% of walsh’s draft choices in indiana were players who were in the league for over 10 years. that is especially good considering indiana was rarely in the lottery due to the teams frequent playoff appearances.

    beasley or rose didnt fall in our laps, but i am confident management will make a competent decision.

    Reply to this comment.
  9. Avatar Thomas B. -

    There is a shot at Bayless with 6. Bulls should take Rose and Miami will take Beasley. The Wolves could take Mayo at three as they need a two. Seattle suprises all snatching Randolph at four. Memphis secures the post with Lopez at five. That means the Knicks can go Bayless at 6, but the better call might be Gallinari. He plays D and can shoot well. It hard to find a 6-9 player with his skillset and he seems tailor made for D’antoni’s system. Plus drafting him means you dont need to sign Childress.

    I say we go full boar rebuild and youth movement. Move Randolph for anything with a shorter contract. Move Marbury and Rose but only for contracts 1 year longer and young players or draft picks. Explore trading Crawford. Let the team learn the system this year, use your lottery pick wisely, and get good the following year since Utah owns that pick.

    Keep Lee, Chandler, Robinson, our draft pick. All others should be considered touchable.

    Reply to this comment.
  10. Avatar danny -

    Thomas B- why would Seattle take Randolph? Makes no sense. They’ll take Bayless. And Lee should NOT be considered untouchable. The kid is a nice complimentary player - that’s all he is. Not an athlete, has no shot, very limited upside - and he has the perception of being better than he is mostly because he’s white. He is a perfect piece to sweeten any trade.

    note on Lee - this all sounds ludicrous now, and is obviously silly and irrelevent and was never going to happen - but last summer with all those Kobe trade rumors flying, there were a lot of people on this blog that insisted that if the Knicks every had an opportunity to get Bryant, they should not include Lee in any deal…..look it up in the archives, around August-October….just sayin’, Lee has a lot of loyalty from Knicks fans.

    Reply to this comment.
  11. Avatar daaarn -

    can someone refresh my memory on why Utah owns one of our future picks?

    Reply to this comment.
  12. Avatar jon abbey -

    from the Marbury deal, Phoenix got it and later sent it to Utah, since Phoenix seems allergic to keeping number 1 picks.

    Reply to this comment.
  13. Avatar Owen -

    “there were a lot of people on this blog that insisted that if the Knicks ever had an opportunity to get Bryant, they should not include Lee”

    I was one of those people. Basically, still one of those people. Absolutely nothing has changed. Kobe could only be called the best shooting guard in the NBA because he plays more minutes than Manu Ginobili, whose stats are better, and whose clutch shooting stats this year have been absolutely ridiculous. Try 57.4% from the field, 44% from three, and 93% from the line. I don’t even know what kind of ts% that is but it might be a record for a guy who scored as much as he did.

    Kobe is still nowhere close to the best player in the NBA. Yes, he won the MVP, and yes he is spectacular, but there are a ton of players in the league I would rather start a team with right now. He is 30, in his 12th season, with a lot of wear on his tires, making 17 million per.

    Frankly, halfway through the season, if I could have added one player to the Knicks from the Lakers for the long haul, it definitely would have been Andrew Bynum.

    The Knicks were not one player away last year. They weren’t even two players away. What exactly would we have accomplished by trading Lee, Crawford and Balkman for Kobe? With a team of Jeffries, Curry, Q et all, how many game would we have won? 33?

    Lee was unbelievable in his sophomore season. He regressed a bit this year, mostly because we had an idiot for a gm who brought in another power forward. But he was still outstanding, still by far the best player on the Knicks, still a top 20 rebounder who scores at an average rate for his position at 60+% ts%, still a huge fan favorite. I still don’t think the trade would have helped this team in the long term.

    Reply to this comment.
  14. Avatar danny -

    Owen, I respect your opinion because you give props to Ginobli and make an interestting point regarding his productivity as a shooting guard compared to Kobe.. I too love Ginobli’s game, and in many ways - certainly in terms of scoring - no player reminds me more of Kobe in the league. And I also agree Bryant is not the absolute “best” player in the game (and will be nauseated by hearing that he is over the next 2-4 weeks of playoffs and probably the finals). For me, that player would be Lebron, for his dominance right now and in the future…However, and a big however, nearly any package that sent Knick role players including Lee and so called “stars” for Bryant would have been the must make deal of the century for this franchise - to lose a nice player in Lee (that would start on few nba squads) and a couple overpaid career losers would have made the team better than you assume (as Bryant had proved in the past, note the last few Laker teams) and would have changed the future, as the Knicks would be able to add similar role pieces around a top 3 player and be better than they ever hope to be with David Lee as their “best player”…now, this trade would never have happened anyway, but if an opportunity arises over the next few months to get rid of contracts for viable pieces and cap space if we only include David Lee in a trade - than for me it’s a no brainer. After three years, Lee has shown slight improvement but no ability to really win games as an important player on a team. Again, their are a few David Lee’s out there - but since they’re not white and polite, they are judged appropiatley. Our David Lee, fan favorite of a 23 win team, is worth more than Kobe Bryant,

    Reply to this comment.
  15. Avatar Ted Nelson -

    ” Now Stephon will hold that cards, he’ll be able to create a decent season for himself - as this is his FA year - and force the Knicks hand, do they re-sign him to get more of that productivity (and lose cap space), or let him go, and have nothing at the PG position (Nate Robinson can never be a starter)?”

    They trade him at the deadline. I don’t think he holds any cards: he’s an aging PG who has already fallen off playing on a rebuilding team with a new coach and president under absolutely no pressure to play him. If he’s not on best behavior and performing on the court they can buy him out or tell him to stay home ala Tim Thomas and he’s stuck playing for the veteran’s minimum or in Europe next season.

    “Not an athlete, has no shot”

    I wouldn’t say he’s anywhere near untouchable, but these two statements are demonstratably false.

    I think it’s you who is looking at Lee’s skin color and labelling him as a poor athlete. He’s a pretty good athlete as his McD’s Slam Dunk contest, soph-rook game MVP (I know there’s no defense, but he shinned playing with the best young ahtletes in the game), and rebound rate would attest. He’s pretty quick and athletic for a bigman, but becuase he’s white a lot of people assume he’s not.

    We’ve been through Lee’s jump shooting a lot lately, but basically: he passes up too many Js, yes, and he needs more confidence shooting from outside, but this past season he shot the 26% of his shots he did take as jumpers at a respectable 40% eFG%.

    Anyway, I’m pretty tired of defending David Lee against baseless attacks. I can’t believe the Bulls won the lottery………………………

    #6, how anticlimatic. However, it could be a good thing for the Knicks in the long-run. Instead of “building around” a guy they hope develops into a franchise player, the Knicks are in a good position to get a solid guy and not rush the rebuilding job. (Not that previous #6 picks are a particularly accurate indication of who the Knicks will end up with, but Shane Battier, for example, is my pick for most underrated player in the NBA. Great defender and smart player whose teams win.)

    While I read one scout say recently that last year’s draft was more wide-open than this years, I disagree. The “consensus top 5″ is sure to have 1 or 2 relative busts. On the other hand, a guy like Donte Green might be this year’s Thaddeus Young (not sure though he seems soft). There are lots of other raw players with tons of upside including Anthony Randolph, maybe Westbrook, Javal McGee, Joe Alexander, even DeAndre Jordan…

    Apparently D’Antoni played with Danilo Gallinari’s father for 8 years, which is an intersting subplot…

    I really think Chris Douglas-Roberts is going to be a solid pro, and would like to see the Knicks trade into the late 1st to get him.

    Chicago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the…

    Reply to this comment.
  16. Avatar Ted Nelson -

    “f an opportunity arises over the next few months to get rid of contracts for viable pieces and cap space if we only include David Lee in a trade - than for me it’s a no brainer.”

    It really depends on the deal. I don’t think anyone’s idea going forward is for David Lee to be the Knicks’ best player, but maybe a core player with 3 or more better scorers around him and some skilled role players. This has also been discussed in previous threads, but I don’t want to hastily move Lee for 2010 cap room with two full seasons to go till offseason 2010.

    Reply to this comment.
  17. Avatar GiantsKnickFan420 -

    6th picks isnt so bad, it is possible that one of the top 5 prospects fall.. obviously Rose/Beaz will be gone but its possible either Mayo/Lopez/Bayless might be there. There are always players who sky rocket during the workouts and one with a couple red flags might fall.
    Its conceivable to believe that maybe some of the baggage around Mayo drops him out of the top 5. It would be great value at 6 becuase he does have franchise player potential. Has a game similar to Joe Johnson (not as good a shooter) and Lebron in terms of passing,deferring and creating for teamates. Lopez is true center, can play D, plays in a complex offense where hes all over the court and highly involved in the offense, some concerns about his motivation and work ethic might cause him to drop as well.
    Bayless i dont think will drop, hes a freakish athelete at 6′3 and a scoring machine. ultra quick and explosive, very high upside. But hes a tweener, is he a PG? SG? i think teams have been turned off by shoot first PGs or SGs in a PGs body a la Ben Gordon who Chicago still cant figure out how to use. Very small chance he falls, but still possible..
    I still feel good about the pick, even if its Gallinari altho we could trade down and grab him later..

    Reply to this comment.
  18. Avatar Phil -

    Just my opinion, but what are the chances we trade back and maybe unload one of our contracts on someone?

    I figure someone below us is gonna fall in love with the Gallinari or is trying to move ahead of a team, we could just drop down, get one of two of my favorites, Joe Alexander or Russell Westbrook AND we can drop one of our terrible contracts (probably someone of the Jeffries/James ilk..one step at a time..)

    And with Joe Alexander (who single handedly destroyed Duke…white athletic guy destroying them, kinda ironic) or Russell Westbrook (who, I think if he stays in college becomes a top 5 pick) gives us a player whos good, but with a real high ceiling. Just my opinion.

    Reply to this comment.
  19. Avatar DS -

    “Just my opinion, but what are the chances we trade back and maybe unload one of our contracts on someone?”

    Agreed - this might be a good opportunity to unload 1 bad contract.

    Is there any chance we package Lee or Nate with the #6 and move UP?

    Reply to this comment.
  20. Avatar Thomas B. -

    An excerpt from Coach D’s interview with Draftxpress.com

    “Q: What pick did you think you were going to get coming into tonight?
    D’Antoni: Maybe five or four. We would have liked to get a top pick, like a top two, but it didn’t work out like that. We don’t want to be here next year, that’s for sure. We’ll try to make it count this year.”

    Did Coach D not know that the Knicks could not get the fourth pick? There range was 1-3 or 5-7 with the highest probability of picking 6th, which they will.

    That just goes to show that very few people know how the draft works.

    Reply to this comment.
  21. Avatar Double J -

    Ok, so the Italian guy 6-10 “Point forward”, and D’Anotni played with the guys father. Could he be Dirk with better defense? If not him and Bayliss/Mayo doesn’t slip, prefered PG: Augustine or Westbrook?

    Reply to this comment.
  22. Avatar DS -

    Maybe we can stick the Bulls w/ Z-Bo somehow - so that they would still add an interior presence and could draft Rose instead of Beasley.

    Reply to this comment.
  23. Avatar Thomas B. -

    Danny-

    I put Anthony Randolph with Seattle because over the past few years they keep picking lanky, long, young forwards and centers.

    Peter Fehnse in 2002
    Nick Collison in 2003
    Robert Swift in 2004
    Johan Petro in 2005
    Sear Sene in 2006
    Kevin Durant in 2007

    The last six picks average 6′10” in hieght and about 142 pounds in wieght. 6′10 skeletons basically. The guy on the board that fits that description is Anthony Randolph. You talk about how Randolph “makes no sense”, well tell me Danny, aside from Durant which of the last 6 Seattle picks have made sense?

    My draft board is not made of what I think the right play is, it is what I think the team will do. Now based on Seattle’s draft history, Randolph fits what they try to do. In a way you are right, it does not make sense for Seattle to pick Randolph, but that doesnt mean they wont do it.

    Reply to this comment.
  24. Avatar Thomas B. -

    DS,

    I like your thinking but I doubt the Bulls, who hate to pay their players, will bite on Randolph’s contract. More likely they will draft Beasely, then package Tyrus Thomas and Hinrich for the right point. I dont know who that might be. NJ might be willing to send Harris for that package.

    The Bulls might deal with us if they can shed some unfavorable contracts. If we would eat Hinrich and Hughes, they might swap picks with us for Randolph, Rose and Chandler? ( I’d hate to add Lee but it may be needed). The Bulls might do that if the right player is still on the board at 6. The deal saves the Bulls 14.5 million over the life of the deal, not including luxury taxes. That would give them room to sign Deng and Gordon. Or the player at 6 can replace Deng or Gordon, if it turns out to be OJ Mayo. The deal helps the Knicks as it gives us Rose or Beasely. And while we pay more over the life of the deal, we do reduce salary in 2010 by 6 million compared to if we kept Randolph.

    On moving up: I like that idea too but it’s only worth it to move up to 1 or 2. The drop off in talent from the third player to the sixth isnt that much. So we should not pay too much just to get to 3. Moving down might not be so bad. If we can cut the fat, so to speak, and unload Randolph.

    Reply to this comment.
  25. Avatar JoMo -

    Im not really devastated with the 6th pick, as i have a newfound sense of confidence in our new Management. A legitimate plan being in place and all, with a legit system that suits our core players sounds pretty money to me. Hear me out:

    (granted this is involving 3 players) but, in D’Antoni’s system we’d have Crawford and Robinson running up court and jacking up shots from everywhere - something they seem to mindlessly excel at. Throw in Lee, who’s got a penchant for hounding the offensive glass and you’ve got a nice little offensive trio.

    At 6 im thinking either Mayo, Love, or Gordon might still be available. All three of these players would fit into that same system pretty well i think - with Mayo being the most competent on the defensive end. But getting Love and his ability to outlet and start the break would be hugely beneficial in a high octane run and gun system. I say yes to Gordon too just because of his scoring instincts, which im sure will only mature.

    Thoughts?

    Reply to this comment.
  26. Avatar JoMo -

    Also! If these philly trade rumors come into fruition (doubtful, but still hopeful) and we are able to dump Randolph to the sixers who are “desperate” for offense - as that is all he is capable of providing, and i think he’d fit well with their gameplan - we might get someone decent in return, like a Louis Williams and some kind of other awful bloated contract to make it even out. Ok, so maybe that wouldnt work.

    Reply to this comment.
  27. Avatar TDM -

    A couple mock drafts out there have Lopez going at 3 to the Wolves and Love going at 5 to the Griz. I can’t buy that. More likely, a lot of teams in the 3 - 10 range will probably be trying to trade down as well. While Memphis needs a quality PF, they can’t take Love with a straight-face at 5.

    Reply to this comment.
  28. Avatar DS -

    For a group of people who are in love w/ Lee who fell to #30, we’re a little too worried about our options at #6.

    Reply to this comment.
  29. Avatar xaviermcdaniel -

    last year, the warriors dealt Richardson for the Bobcat’s pick which turned out to be Brandon Wright. Is it possible the knicks could do that dumping Randolph for a draft pick (not sure which team in their right mind would do that)? And then doesn’t that involve a trade exception of some sort.

    Reply to this comment.
  30. Avatar George from Scottsdale -

    The Knicks need to do three things-build around defense, rebounding and fiscal responsibility.Trade down and take Robin Lopez,excellent shoblocker and will fit MD’s “running” O,get ‘09 pick,don’t have one. Unload either Zach or Curry by packaging with Crawford, only bargaining chip,get what they can for Marbury.Build around Lee,Chandler and Lopez,give Collins a shot at PG,coming off injury and bring Jeffries and Balkman off the bench,N8 may have to go,due big $$$ extension, rather give to DLee. ‘09 draft solid pick up scorer and continue to try to unload either Zach or Curry,whoever’s still there!!

    Reply to this comment.
  31. Avatar ess-dog -

    Do NOT give Collins a shot at the point!

    Reply to this comment.
  32. Avatar Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) -
    Author Comment

    Chelsea or Man U?

    Reply to this comment.
  33. Avatar mason -

    question, If D’antoni style requires 2 major things:
    1. pass-first up tempo pg
    2. jump-shooting PF

    dont Zach and Nate qualify as good options?

    Reply to this comment.
  34. Avatar Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) -
    Author Comment

    Zach Randolph isn’t exactly a good transition player. In fact he’s probably the worst PF I’ve seen in getting back on defense. Additionally I can’t imagine D’Antoni’s offense running through a PF that holds the ball for 12 seconds without even considering passing it.

    Reply to this comment.
  35. Avatar mason -

    i dont think D’antoni will let him hold the ball the way isiah did but as far as a pick and pop combo with nate(lee as your Offensive rebounder), thats pretty good!

    Reply to this comment.
  36. Avatar hoolahoop -

    Let’s get one thing straight. Unless we steal an elite, high impact, team changing player Marbury is not going to be traded. He’s one of the most valuable players in the league this coming season - even if he doesn’t play a single game. His value is in his expiring contract that will make cap space.

    Reply to this comment.
  37. Avatar jon abbey -

    “Let’s get one thing straight. Unless we steal an elite, high impact, team changing player Marbury is not going to be traded. He’s one of the most valuable players in the league this coming season - even if he doesn’t play a single game. His value is in his expiring contract that will make cap space.”

    this is a bit of a misconception, I think. Marbury’s contract is so big that it will be hard for other teams to match it with guys they want to move.

    Reply to this comment.
  38. Avatar Nick -

    “I dont think D’antoni will let him hold the ball the way isiah did but as far as a pick and pop combo with nate(lee as your Offensive rebounder), thats pretty good!”

    I can’t recall ever seeing Zach set a screen, pick, roll or pop much less see Nate run anything resembling a play but other than that it sounds great.

    Reply to this comment.
  39. Avatar mason -

    “I can’t recall ever seeing Zach set a screen, pick, roll or pop much less see Nate run anything resembling a play but other than that it sounds great.”

    dont underestimte the influence of a good coach on a highly skilled and coachable Nate robinson!

    Also,
    Im hearing the name Danilo, what does he bring to the table that wilson Chandler doesn’t besides ball-handling, anyone know?

    Reply to this comment.
  40. Avatar caleb -

    “Marbury’s contract is so big that it will be hard for other teams to match it with guys they want to move.”

    There’s definitely truth to this. But I still think he’ll end up traded.

    If Marbury is healthy, there will be plenty of teams willing to pay the remaining $6-8 million on his deal (as of February) to be an extra scorer — think of the deals for Sam Cassell, Mike Bibby, Bonzi Wells, etc.

    But there are more potential trade partners than that. Other teams might do it just for cap reasons, then release him.

    There are more than two dozen players with contracts bigger than $10 million a year, expiring in 2010 (a pool of players we would accept). It’s easy to picture some of those teams a) wanting to clear salary; b) being able to cobble together a matching offer; c) being willing to include a draft pick or young player, in order to save $20 million and clear cap space.

    Reply to this comment.
  41. Avatar Nick -

    Mase-I’d like to think that D’Antoni can suceed where hall-of fame coaches have failed in the past with these players. I think they’re incorrigible with Zach, Jamal, Eddy and Nate in that order being the biggest culprits of the players that belong in the league and Q, Jeffires (for trying to do too many things he is incapable of) and Mardy just not belonging in the NBA.

    Reply to this comment.
  42. Avatar caleb -

    As far as trades go… you could also look at options for straight-up deals, just to get an additional pick. For example, if you’re trading David Lee straight up, could you get Mike Conley from Memphis? Would you trade him just for a draft pick, say in the 3-8 range? (one benefit being, you’d save $8-10 million in 2010 cap room).

    Also in money-saving mode, is there a player in the draft we like better than Nate Robinson? (say, in the 15-25 range?)

    It wouldn’t make a difference cap-wise — but is there a prospect we like better than Wilson Chandler?

    I haven’t seen enough of the draf prospects to make an informed judgement… but you can bet that Walsh is weighing those options.

    For the second half of the 1st round, I agree with whoever it was that said Robin Lopez would be a nice pickup.. a 7-footer who actually plays defense. haven’t seen one of those anywhere near MSG lately.

    A non-Knicks thought… what are the odds of Miami trading the #2? They have 2 genuins All-Stars already, one of whom is turning 30 and the other who’s an MVP candidate but can’t be expecting a very long career… do they really want a rookie in the mix, even a great prospect like Beasley or Rose? I could see Miami putting together a deal for Elton Brand, Baron Davis, maybe even Carmelo, something along those lines.

    Reply to this comment.
  43. Avatar jon abbey -

    “There are more than two dozen players with contracts bigger than $10 million a year, expiring in 2010 (a pool of players we would accept). It’s easy to picture some of those teams a) wanting to clear salary; b) being able to cobble together a matching offer; c) being willing to include a draft pick or young player, in order to save $20 million and clear cap space.”

    well, getting from $10 million to $22 million (Marbury’s salary next season) isn’t so easy. as far as “cap space”, you’re only talking about one year extra (since you’ve ruled out players with contracts going past 2010), and are there even many worthy free agent targets in the 2009 offseason?

    Reply to this comment.
  44. Avatar mason -

    nick,
    im keeping a positive outlook since there are good players on the roster and a good coach who will play to their best strengths…its going to be an exciting off- season and i’m looking forward to it.

    Reply to this comment.
  45. Avatar jon abbey -

    meh, there are some OK players on the team, but we’re still in pretty easily the worst position of anyone in the league, not to mention the East got decidedly deeper yesterday. we’re going to be right back in Secaucus next May, probably with more ping-pong balls this time. any ideas who the top guys in the 2009 draft are supposed to be?

    Reply to this comment.
  46. Avatar jon abbey -

    if you could somehow get Mike Conley, he’d be a great chip to turn around and try to move to Portland for multiple players, since I’m sure he and Oden would love to be reunited. of course, Portland could offer Memphis more directly if they wanted, so probably a moot point.

    Reply to this comment.
  47. Avatar caleb -

    “getting from $10 million to $22 million (Marbury’s salary next season) isn’t so easy…”

    True, but you only need to be within 25%, and I think there will be at least a few options… Kings have $27 million in junk that expires in 2010… Wiz have $19 million… Ben Wallace and Larry Hughes are $14 million each… if the wheels really come off in Houston or Phoenix, they could decide to dump McGrady or Shaq’s $20 million deals…

    “are there even many worthy free agent targets in the 2009 offseason?”

    Likely FAs next summer include Mike Bibby, Drew Gooden, Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson, Rasheed Wallace, Baron Davis, Jeff Foster, Lamar Odom, Trevor Ariza, Jason Collins, Shawn Marion, Andre Miller, Ron Artest and Chris Wilcox… less likely, but not farfetched (i.e. wouldn’t be surprised if they opt out or don’t get extensions) include Carlos Boozer, Hedo Turkoglu, Corey Maggette, J.R. Smith, Emeka Okafor, Luol Deng and Ben Gordon…

    So sure, teams will want to get under the cap.

    Reply to this comment.
  48. Avatar caleb -

    And I’d love Conley on his own merits… really good defender, quick, only 20 y/o… could be our starter the next 10 years.

    Don’t know that Memphis would go for it, but they do have two decent PG prospects (plus the #5 pick) and no power forwards.

    Reply to this comment.
  49. Avatar jon abbey -

    “Likely FAs next summer include Mike Bibby, Drew Gooden, Jason Kidd, Allen Iverson, Rasheed Wallace, Baron Davis, Jeff Foster, Lamar Odom, Trevor Ariza, Jason Collins, Shawn Marion, Andre Miller, Ron Artest and Chris Wilcox”

    no one is going out of their way to clear cap space for any of these guys, come on. Jason Collins?

    Reply to this comment.
  50. Avatar caleb -

    “no one is going out of their way to clear cap space for any of these guys.”

    Are you serious?

    but yeah, I was just kidding about Jason Collins.

    Reply to this comment.
  51. Avatar teddd -

    KB, Roy was an all-star this year at age 23 and has a natural feel for the game that just can’t be taught. Either way, he should never be lumped into the same group as Martell Webster. He’s a star.

    And while Yi is listed at 19 before last season, enough people are whispering that he’s closer 22 to make you wonder…

    Reply to this comment.
  52. Avatar caleb -

    Not only is he old, Yi might have been the worst player in the league of anyone who got meaningful minutes.

    Reply to this comment.
  53. Avatar TDM -

    “what are the odds of Miami trading the #2?”

    It all depends on what Chicago does with #1. If CHI takes Beasley, Miami is taking Rose. If CHI takes Rose, Miami may want to trade out. They are already set at the 4 with Haslem and Marion. However, if Marion exercises his option, they could keep their pick and take Beasley.

    The thing is, assuming Miami would only consider trading the #2 if Rose isn’t there, would the Knicks want to pay the ransom necessary to select Beasley?

    Reply to this comment.
  54. Avatar caleb -

    I saw that on ESPN, too. I’m not so sure Miami wouldn’t consider trading Rose, too - but either way, I don’t see any conceivable offer that the Knicks could put together, that Miami would consider.

    Reply to this comment.
  55. Avatar GB -

    We’re taking Rose.

    You guys should move up for Bayless or Mayo.

    Reply to this comment.
  56. Avatar Matthew -

    bud:

    Wagner was a very bad player even before the injuries. His only skill was scoring, but he shot in the 30s fg%. Terrible player.

    Reply to this comment.
  57. Avatar Dallas -

    Can the knicks still get Mayo with the 6th pick?

    Reply to this comment.
  58. Avatar TDM -

    GB:

    Who do you mean when you say “We’re”? CHI or MIA?

    If MIA, Rose may not be there. As bad as the Bulls need a low-post scorer like Beasley, they also need Rose. Also, Rose is from Chi-Town. They are in the drivers seat - MIA gets the scraps (albeit, still a good position to be in).

    With regard to Miami trading out, I’m not sure how trading picks and players effects the cap situation, but I’d give #6 and Zach for #2 and Blount.

    Reply to this comment.
  59. Avatar ess-dog -

    Caleb, why would Memphis trade Conley? They have Conley and Crittendon as a backcourt for 10 years. Won’t happen. And why would we trade Steph for junk? Unless we can get a REALLY useful player, we should just let him expire at the end of the year.
    I think we need to think big with this pick (who knows if we’ll have a pick this good in the next 4 years.) I’m not against the idea of taking Gordon at #6. So he had a bad tournament, big deal! He’s 19 yrs old. He was ranked by most scouts as the top high-school baller along with OJ Mayo. He was the man at a good program for one year in a great confrence… coaching issues. It’s funny people look at Anthony Randolph and see all this potential, but look at Gordon and see a has-been… they’re both freshmen! I’m not definitely in favor of Gordon (I think you have to think hard if Lopez is still there at #6) but isn’t he a better prospect as a 2-guard than OJ? He has a better shot, a little shorter at 6′4″ (OJ’s 6″6′), but Gordon can jump and drive to the hoop pretty well…
    He, Chandler and Lee would be a nice core. And if we could get a late 1st rounder, I’d take a chance on Lawson as a pure point prospect. He’s at least as good as Collins, and a much better pure point than anyone we have now.

    Reply to this comment.
  60. Avatar Thomas B. -

    Why are so many people talking about Dujaun Wagner all of a sudden? Did everyone watch his workout video on youtube.com? I wouldn’t drink the Kool-Aid. DW is just Nate Robinson with poorer accurancy and even less conscience.

    I should point out that with a week left in the NBA season jon abbey correctly predicted that the Knicks would not have a top five pick. I disagreed and I was wrong. So I am just going to stop arguing with him. He is the best.

    I just think it is lunacy to trade Beasly just because Marion might not opt out of his deal. Five years from now when Haslem and Marion are signing on with title contenders who are looking for a “crafty veteran”, Beasly will be a 25 year old stat stuffing stud. I don’t care if you have nine PFs on the team, you do not trade a talent like Beasly. That would repeat the “Sam Bowie mistake”, which is to draft for need rather than taking the better player even though it creates a logjam.

    Reply to this comment.
  61. Avatar caleb -

    “Caleb, why would Memphis trade Conley?”

    Because they’d (maybe) rather have David Lee. Probably not, but not ridiculous. I don’t know what they think of Conley, but they have 2 other decent prospects so maybe there’s a deal that could work. If not straight up, include the right to swap next year’s picks, something like that.

    “why would we trade Steph for junk?”

    Who said anything about junk? You do it if a team will send back a draft pick or good young player. (to save themselves $20 million+ next year)

    “He’s at least as good as Collins.”

    So are most of the people posting on this board. But yeah, Lawson might be worth a shot with a pick in the 20s.

    re: trading Mike Beasley, there’s no one in the league untradeable, much less a guy who hasn’t even played. Miami has two guys in their prime; if they scored a first-tier All-Star in return for the pick it might make sense to deal… even if Beasley turns out great. I mean, whatever Shaq looks like now, it was a good deal for Miami because they won a title in the short run.

    Reply to this comment.
  62. Avatar TDM -

    “Caleb, why would Memphis trade Conley?”

    Because they are loaded with guards: crittendon, conley, navarro, lowry, miller.

    Reply to this comment.
  63. Avatar Donald Trump -

    Why are we proposing trades that have no basis in reality? Just sit back and let Walsh handle it.

    Reply to this comment.
  64. Avatar TDM -

    Memphis traded Gasol to the Lakers for pocket change and the draft rights to his brother, so exactly what do you mean by “no basis in reality”?

    Reply to this comment.
  65. Avatar justin o -

    i herd that shud the pistons lose this series they will rebuild so how bout this for a quick turn around .
    1. trade crawford for TJ ford. This makes a ton of sense for us, we give up a streaky shooter, for a pass first point guard who can slash thru defenses and will play in d’antonis offense great he can absolutley fly in the fastbreak.
    2. draft danillo gallinari, trade him, chandler and a filler (if needed im way to lazy tolook up the contracts) for tayshaun prince. A great rebounder with huge arms who thinks defense and rebounding first, shot second, something we desperetly need.
    3. Trade David Lee, balkman and randolph to chi for hughes, noah and ty thomas, buyout hughes.
    4. sign and trade for antwan jamison, give up marburys expiring and tyrus thomas.

    heres how we wud luk
    1. Ford
    2. Robinson
    3. Prince
    4. Jamison
    5. Curry
    BENCH.
    Richardson, Noah, Rose, Jefries, james whoever
    this may not be the most reaistic, but this looks like a 6 or 7 seed in the east to me, great defensivly and with the exception of curry can really run. the starting 5 with the exception for curry can really run the fastbreak.

    Reply to this comment.
  66. Avatar caleb -

    Lee for Conley isn’t farfetched… Would Memphis rather have Bayless or Mayo + Lee, or Conley + Anthony Randolph or Lopez or yet another guard?

    $$$ would be a hurdle (Lee getting an extension two years before Conley), but we could take Brian Cardinal or Mike Miller’s contracts off their hands, or come up with another sweetener.

    But you’re right, I need to get back to real work and leave the dealing to Donnie.

    Reply to this comment.
  67. Avatar jon abbey -

    ““no one is going out of their way to clear cap space for any of these guys.”

    Are you serious? ”

    I can’t tell if you’re joking or not anymore, Caleb, but yeah, I’m serious, with maybe one or two exceptions. Baron Davis and Andre Miller had great years, but with one more year of wear on their tires, do you really think teams will be rushing to lock them up for the long term? and I love Trevor Ariza as much as anyone except his mom, but if he commands more than the midcap exemption, I’ll be shocked.

    Reply to this comment.
  68. Avatar jon abbey -

    does Lee for Conley really help us? I’d rather just take Westbrook and stick with Lee.

    Reply to this comment.
  69. Avatar caleb -

    ok, I’m not ready to go back to work quite yet…

    re: 2009 FAs, you don’t have to consider these guys LeBron level catches… just one example, don’t you think Washington would be glad to dump Antonio Daniels and Etan Thomas, for a chance to sign Lamar Odom or Shawn Marion? It doesn’t have to be a max deal — a lot of these guys could command $7 or $8 million a year. Besides all that, a lot of non-Knick teams would be glad to save $20 million, whether or not they use the cap space.

    “does Lee for Conley really help us? I’d rather just take Westbrook and stick with Lee.”

    Not a bad idea… I like Westbrook too (especially if we could trade down a few spots, pick up another asset and still grab him)… but it’s not exactly the same. #1 They both look terrific on defense, but IMO Conley is much more polished as a PG… #2, as long as we’re desperate to gain 2010 cap flexibility, paying Conley $4m vs. $8-10 million to Lee, would help..

    Reply to this comment.
  70. Avatar jon abbey -

    “just one example, don’t you think Washington would be glad to dump Antonio Daniels and Etan Thomas, for a chance to sign Lamar Odom or Shawn Marion?”

    yeah, probably, although they have to figure out what’s going on with Jamison and Arenas first.

    Reply to this comment.
  71. Avatar Danisrob -

    Just saw this on True Hoop

    Alan Hahn of Newsday: “There was no frozen envelope, no conspiracy. But now, after the Knicks wound up with the sixth pick from the NBA draft lottery Tuesday night, there are many options for Donnie Walsh in what he calls the ’second stage’ of the Knicks’ rebuilding process. ‘Now,’ Walsh said, ‘our work starts.’ It starts with shopping the pick with the intention of packaging it with one of those hefty contracts on the team’s bloated payroll in an effort to get some desperately needed salary-cap relief, which, for Walsh, is always Job 1. ‘I think we’ll look at everything,’ Walsh said.”

    Reply to this comment.
  72. Avatar GiantKnickFan -

    My ideal situation right now is trading down a couple spots and ship a bad contract, maybe add a decent veteran and draft Gallinari.
    Id only feel comfortable picking at 6 if either Mayo/Bayless/Lopez falls to 6.

    Reply to this comment.
  73. Avatar villainx -

    It should be interesting. Looks like there is a chance of a lot of movement by a lot of teams this off season and around draft time. Hopefully the Knicks sneak in for a steal of some sort.

    Reply to this comment.
  74. Avatar CMAC -

    What do you guys think about trading either randolph or even crawford to philly since they are the only ones with cap to spare for their pick. We could probably get Alexander with that pick. He would be a great scorer in our new offense. He has a good motor can rebound and down the stretch last year took over games in the big east. Im a uconn fan and i saw him just tear us apart our very good d couldn’t stop him and he is a good defender as well. I think he could be a very good pro very underrated.

    Reply to this comment.
  75. Avatar TDM -