Title

RSS «» Advanced Stats Page - A Layman's Guide to Advanced NBA Statistics

"Indispensable."
Eric Neel ESPN.com

"The (NBA's) premier analytical blog."
Kevin Pelton SuperSonics.com

Payin The Bills

Latest Comments:
Hot Links
Knick Links
RSS & Info

My RSS Feed

Subscribe in NewsGator Online Creative Commons License

Archives

HOT or NOT?

Meta
Ah… The Bittersweet Taste of Ambivalence

May 12th, 2008 by David Crockett | Comments | Permalink | Trackback |

As you are no doubt aware by now, the Knicks have hired former Phoenix Suns head coach Mike D’Antoni to be their new head coach (4 years/$6 million per). Opinions are flying in from pundits, bloggers, fans, and onlookers. Opinions, it should come as no surprise, cover the spectrum. Some are excited. Others are disappointed. Personally, I am ambivalent about the hire.

I both love it and hate it.

Ambivalence: The condition of holding opposite feelings for the same person or object

Love. I’ve been begging the Knicks to run for quite some time. Although the current roster is missing Steve Nash the Knicks could increase their pace from a middle-of-the-pack 13th into the top 7 just by deciding to play faster. Running would maximize the strengths of the young core, Curry’s and Randolph’s loafing be damned. When pundits opine about how poorly D’Antoni fits the roster, they are usually referring to Marbury, Curry, and Randolph. But, Walsh is here precisely because these players really are no longer the core. They’re baggage. On the other hand, Nate Robinson, Crawford, Lee, Jeffries, Chandler, and Balkman could potentially thrive in an uptempo running game. And for what it’s worth, in the brief moments Curry has been healthy and in reasonable shape he’s run the floor well. He’s not a poor fit for D’Antoni’s system per se. Finally, the other thing I love is that it is relatively easy to find complimentary players for D’Antoni’s style at fairly reasonable prices. Raja Bell, James Jones, Anthony Parker, T.J. Ford, Kurt Thomas, and Boris Diaw were all basically considered minor acquisitions when they joined Phoenix or Toronto (Phoenix’s closest imitator).

Hate. On inspection the D’Antoni courtship is eerily like Larry Brown’s. Like Brown, D’Antoni has had some issues working and playing well with others. I’m not suggesting that D’Antoni is a drama queen on par with Brown, but basically D’Antoni put himself on the market because Steve Kerr bruised his ego. It’s ostensibly NY’s gain, but still troubling. I am concerned that D’Antoni’s tendency to bristle at criticism, a bit like former Mets skipper Bobby Valentine, is a potential land mine. If/when Walsh inserts a GM (perhaps Billy King) between himself and D’Antoni we could see history repeat itself. It’s quite possible that the messenger–the inexperienced Kerr–rather than the message was the problem for D’Antoni but it’s something to keep an eye on. I also think it’s legitimate to question D’Antoni’s willingness to hold his players accountable–particularly on defense. Amare Stoudemire is unguardable when he’s on, but he remains mostly an indifferent defender. I don’t expect D’Antoni to publicly humiliate his players but I do expect to see improvement in the “hustle” categories (i.e., steals, blocks, drawn charges, boards, deflections) from stars. A friend once told me that when one of your stars doesn’t defend–which is to say, gives effort on the defensive end–it is a direct reflection of his respect for the coach. I believe that. None of these are fatal flaws for D’Antoni, but they are precisely the kinds of flaws that could keep a championship caliber team out of the finals or turn an imposing rebuilding job into an impossible one.

A word about Mark Jackson. One routinely over-valued aspect of sports is coaching experience. Coaching is obviously important, but it’s so important few truly incompetent coaches ever see the light of day, Jerry Tarkanian’s brief foray into the NBA notwithstanding. The distance separating the best coaches from the worst is routinely offset by factors outside the coach’s control like injuries, relationships with players or management. Inexperience can be offset by the experience of others, like Avery Johnson’s staff in Dallas. I would like to have seen Mark Jackson offered the head-coaching job. He seems like the right fit for a bad team in need of a classic rebuild. But I don’t feel bad for him. This would have been a terrible first job. Having said that, there is little reason to believe that D’Antoni will be a complete disaster. He’s clearly a quality coach and he has players on the roster that do in fact fit his preferred style. NY should improve from horrible to mediocre just from competent management and coaching.

Share this article with others: BallHype Digg Technorati del.icio.us Stumbleupon Reddit Furl Yahoo

Your Ad Here

172 Responses to “Ah… The Bittersweet Taste of Ambivalence”

  1. Avatar o_boogie -

    It isnt easy going from coach/gm to just coach overnight. It seems like Sarver did not take into consideration what kind of relationship Kerr and D’antoni would have. Donnie Walsh has been around too long to hire a high profile coach like D’antoni then bring in a gm he would butt heads with.

    Everyone seems to be assuming that D’antoni is a one trick pony and will try and implement a SSoL type system in NY (which wouldnt necessarily be a bad thing). But, the mark of a great coach is whether he adjusts his system to his personnel. Only time will tell.

    I do like that D’antoni is a players coach who uses a lot of positive reinforcement, which should help bridge the gap between cheeseburgers curry/z-bo and the team in the event we can get no takers in a trade.

    Reply to this comment.
  2. Avatar GiantKnickFan -

    I cant blame D’antoni for leaving if he felt he was being undermined by Kerr. Kerr has already been known to be meddlesome.
    D’antoni im sure has a lot of pride and didnt have the support he did like when Colangelo was there.
    What i like is that there is now an identity and players do love to play in this system becuase its fun, up-tempo and more importantly he treats players like adults and lets them play.

    Reply to this comment.
  3. Avatar o_boogie -

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/12/sports/basketball/12knicks.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

    excellent read about D’antoni’s history as a european pg and further insight into his coaching style.

    Reply to this comment.
  4. Avatar justin -

    can anyone post the article on espn.com from the rumor section about the knicks tryin to lure lebron. thanks!

    Reply to this comment.
  5. Avatar David Crockett -
    Author Comment

    Few professional league coaches will implement a system without regard to personnel. So, I agree with you o_boogie. This notion that D’Antoni will be lost without a full-fledged “seven seconds or less” is a red herring. People are conflating “system” with “pace.” The two are related, but distinct. Phil Jackson’s been running the same triple post offense forever, but his 1996 72-win Bulls team was one of the slowest in the league while this 2008 Lakers team played the league’s 6th fastest pace–and that was mostly with Bynum. There’s no reason for D’Antoni not to quicken the pace, and he doesn’t need Nash, Marion, and Stoudemire to do it.

    As for the new GM, the names I’ve heard most frequently are Billy King and Bernie Bickerstaff. I’d generally be fine with either, as I think both have decent eyes for talent and neither is prone to doing something demonstrably stupid.

    Reply to this comment.
  6. Avatar DS -
  7. Avatar caleb -

    Why does Walsh (or any team president) need a GM? I’m just askin!

    As for Steve Kerr, he seems like a nice smart guy and I enjoyed hearing him on the broadcasts, but what had he ever done to qualify him for running a team?

    Reply to this comment.
  8. Avatar o_boogie -

    Caleb:

    Kerr must have been considered desirable as he was situated under Jackson and Popovich as a player. Working in close contact with those two guys will turn anyone into a bright basketball mind.

    Reply to this comment.
  9. Avatar jon abbey -

    “Working in close contact with those two guys will turn anyone into a bright basketball mind.”

    evidently not, as he couldn’t have screwed up Phoenix any quicker (with a lot of help from Sarver) if that had been his goal.

    Reply to this comment.
  10. Avatar PeteRoc -

    0_boogie:

    IT played for hall of fame coach Bob Knight (and won an NCAA title), hall of fame coach Chuck Daly (and won 2 NBA titles), and coached under Donnie Walsh in Indiana (admittedly, I think he did a good coaching job in Indiana).

    If anything, playing for a good coach would seem to be a precursor for becoming a coach yourself. I agree with Caleb, what qualifies him to run a team?

    Reply to this comment.
  11. Avatar o_boogie -

    I could only speculate why Sarver hired Kerr, but as I stated above, said logic was probably the deciding factor. He also seemed to provide somewhat competent info as a TV analyst, however I don’t believe that necessarily translates into running a team successfully.

    Reply to this comment.
  12. Avatar miik -

    I don’t know how one can’t be elated about this hire. Yeah, he hasn’t won a championship, but not like any other coaching candidate out there has either. He’s far and away the most successful coach available, AND he coaches the most entertaining basketball in the league, to boot. Watching the Knicks will be fun again.

    As for the players not fitting D’Antoni’s system: The crap roster we have now doesn’t fit any system! No coach was going to make the current roster better or make those chumps play defense. That’s why Walsh is here. Significant roster changes will be made before D’Antoni even coaches his first Knicks game. At least the ship is finally pointing in the right direction.

    As for the criticisms that D’Antoni’s teams don’t play defense, I think they were more successful than given credit for. Nash is a subpar defender and players were constantly blowing by him and getting to the hoop. Nothing D’Antoni could do about that. On the otherhand, Bell and Marion were excellent defenders. If anything, people are disappointed D’Antoni couldn’t turn Amare into a better defender. That might be a vaild criticism.

    Mark Jackson might be a good coach somewhere, but I’m convinced it isn’t NY. I mean, as a player, he became one of the least popular Knicks I can remember, almost on par with Marbury. And, I’m convinced he would wear out his welcome just as quickly and spectacularly as he did after his rookie season because of his cockiness and sensitivity to criticism. He has too much bluster and pompousness to deal with the NY media.

    Hiring Walsh is already paying off.

    Reply to this comment.
  13. Avatar Ken -

    This is a higher risk, but also higher reward, than hiring Mark Jackson. If D’Antoni can make it through the first two years with some good will left, then he will be a big success when the better players start to arrive. It’s shakey, but Knicks fans will be surprised how much more smoothly things run with Isiah gone.

    Reply to this comment.
  14. Avatar stingy d -

    what if we pilfered baron davis for the expiring contract of marbury. just saying theoretically, good move/bad move?

    and curry will be fine because him and crawford have that esp guys. and crawford is gonna seriously light it up next year fellers.

    but jared jeffries is no good man. that guy has got to go. he is a liability beyond comparison. he might be charles smith waiting to happen- except he’s waiting to happen like 8 or 10 times per game.

    Reply to this comment.
  15. Avatar Thomas B. -

    For those that don’t like this hire, like myself, we can take some solace in the idea that D’antoni’s style is good fit for guys like Robinson, Chandler, Balkman, Lee, and dare I hope Derrick Rose or Mike Beasley. So we would likely see more of the players we like and less of the players that we do not like. For the folks who worry about D’antoni’s history of not using the bench, that is only a bad thing when we see what is on the bench. If the young guys are benched that would be bad. Benching Randolph, the JJ’s, Collins, possibly Curry and Marbury might be a good thing.

    Speaking of the Starbury. I read he plans to come into camp in great shape and with the right attitude. Does anyone buy that? Has he not sold us this every summer since he arrived? The problem is not the way he comes to camp, his problme has always been how he responds to not getting his way. Of every coach the Knicks had in the Marbury era, Wilkens seemed to give him the most room to play his way. Wilken had little choice as there was no one else on the team who could score like Steph. Thomas tried but last year it was clear he was sick of Steph’s antics. If D’antoni is smart he will test Steph in the presaeson and not give him the chance to ruin the season with his poor attitude.

    Reply to this comment.
  16. Avatar caleb -

    The last time D’Antoni got a head coaching job, the Suns traded Marbury 13 games later — so I don’t get the feeling that Mike is an admirer.

    But no matter — Marbury isn’t part of the long-term plan, anyway. He’s still the best point guard on the roster, though — hopefully he’ll play well enough that we can trade him at the deadline, for a draft pick, along with a contract or three that exprire by 2010.

    Reply to this comment.
  17. Avatar cwod -

    Bostjan Nachbar has interest in coming to the Knicks.

    Great.

    Reply to this comment.
  18. Avatar Capt. Merlin -

    Ah, cwod, the savior cometh.

    Reply to this comment.
  19. Avatar caleb -

    I think Knick fans are just starting to emerge from a state of psychological trauma, terrified of the madman who was holding our team hostage the past four years. We were constantly on edge that he would do something to destroy our hopes even further, while at the same time we developed a sort of Stockholm Syndrome — accepting the basics of the situation, that current starters are the key players, etc.

    We’re just now realizing that it doesn’t have to be this way — if we have a better center than Curry, he’ll be replaced. If we have a better PG, he’ll play. If Renaldo Balkman (or David Lee) is sitting on the bench next year, we can know there’s a good reason — it’s not part of an evil plot or harebrained “strategy.”

    It will take time to rebuild, but sanity is back.

    Even in the short-term, like others have said, we shouldn’t be bottom-feeders next year. We have basically the same roster that won 33 games in 2006-2007, except the young guys are more developed, we have the draft pick and we have a competent coach…

    Reply to this comment.
  20. Avatar Z -

    “[Kerr] couldn’t have screwed up Phoenix any quicker”

    D’Antoni talked Kerr into the Shaq deal. Doesn’t he deserve some credit for Phoenix’s demise too?

    “[Mark Jackson] became one of the least popular Knicks I can remember”

    Less popular than the guy he was traded for?!?

    “I read [Marbury] plans to come into camp in great shape and with the right attitude. Does anyone buy that?”

    Yes. He is going to be playing for his next contract. I think he’ll make Chris Paul look like Mardy Collins.

    “As for the players not fitting D’Antoni’s system: The crap roster we have now doesn’t fit any system!”

    Exactly. Who cares about the current roster. Walsh was brought in to undo the roster. We are more than a coaching change away from respectability!

    Reply to this comment.
  21. Avatar o_boogie -

    It seems like oj mayo would have been a no brainer choice if we dont get a top-2 pick, especially with the d’antoni at the helm. do you guys think the benefits scandal will potentially change that and/or hurt his draft stock?

    Reply to this comment.
  22. Avatar Thomas B. -

    From a NY daily:
    “So D’Antoni thought that instead of inserting an inexperienced, somewhat overmatched player in his starting five, why not just add another swingman? So unwittingly began Marion’s career as the smallest power forward in the NBA. But it worked like magic.”

    So what will that mean for the Knicks? A Lee, Balkman, Chandler frontcourt?

    Reply to this comment.
  23. Avatar Thomas B. -

    “I think Knick fans are just starting to emerge from a state of psychological trauma, terrified of the madman who was holding our team hostage the past four years. We were constantly on edge that he would do something to destroy our hopes even further, while at the same time we developed a sort of Stockholm Syndrome — accepting the basics of the situation, that current starters are the key players, etc.”

    LOL! So true, so very true.

    Reply to this comment.
  24. Avatar Ess-dog -

    After this hire, grabbing Derrick Rose in the draft would just seem like the stars aligning. I think he could really push the pace that D’Antoni wants. If we can’t get him, Bayless would be a good 2nd choice. OJ will be a nice player, but he’s a replica of Steph which we don’t need! And just let Steph walk after next year. Then I would package Zach and Jamal or Nate for a big (but shorter) contract than Zach’s and another draft pick (20-30 range.) I would let Mardy go. Work the Curry/Lee frontcourt til we can find something better. Chandler/Balkman at the 3. Steph @ the 2 (just like Larry Brown wanted.) And our new point guard. Nate or Jamal off the bench. Maybe a little Morris or Jeffries here and there. Voila! Build from there…

    Reply to this comment.
  25. Avatar caleb -

    I was too harsh on OJ a few weeks back, but I don’t think he’s good enough to go #3. Number 5 is sort of a strange spot — after Rose & Beasley, the next several guys have many question marks and probably wouldn’t go higher than 5 or 6 in a typical draft. So trading down would be a good option.

    But if we DO stay at #5, I like Bayless better than Mayo. Pros: Bayless might have the skills to play PG in the NBA; he was a much more efficient scorer in college. Cons: Mayo is a much better defender.

    Lopez would be the safest pick. #5 seems a little high, but he’ll at least be a decent 7-foot NBA starting center. They don’t grow on trees. He’s very skilled and a good passer, high priorities in D’Antoni-Land. He’s not a dominating player, but then he just turned 20 so I think he has a lot of “upside,” to use a cliche.

    (if we somehow get a second draft pick, I think Robin Lopez would be terrific pick, in the 2nd half of the first round — a genuine center who can run the floor and had 2.3 blocks a game in just 24 minutes)

    But if Donnie Walsh will take my call, I’d lobby for Anthony Randolph. He hasn’t had the exposure, but even though he’s just 18 he played very well as a freshman… at 6′11 he could play anything in the frontcourt… at the high-end, a Kirilenko, or a taller Shawn Marion with more of a post-up game. At the low end, maybe Andray Blatche…

    Reply to this comment.
  26. Avatar caleb -

    Berri Throws Down the Gauntlet!

    He’s listed the five NBA fan websites he thinks are “consistently good.” Something is missing, or maybe Owen just hasn’t been posting enough…

    http://dberri.wordpress.com/2008/05/10/introducing-the-nba-team-reviews-2007-08/

    http://www.denverstiffs.com/
    http://www.hornets247.com/
    http://pistonscast.com/
    http://3shadesofblue.blogspot.com/
    http://bucksdiary.blogspot.com/

    Reply to this comment.
  27. Avatar Ted Nelson -

    “If anything, people are disappointed D’Antoni couldn’t turn Amare into a better defender.”

    I think that’s a big part of the criticism of his defensive coaching. Yeah, Phoenix was average (not at the bottom of the league) in terms of defensive efficiency, but I think the criticism is: you’re great offensively & mediocre defensively, what should you try to improve??? Why didn’t you improve?

    I don’t know if that’s fair or not, though, it’s hard to argue with 60 win seasons and deep playoff runs.
    My only reservation is that D’Antoni had zero NBA success pre-Phoenix. I think that because the Knicks’ roster is probably closer to the Nuggets’ roster he coached than the Suns’ rosters he’s had, wondering whether D’Antoni is a one trick pony is a legitimate concern.

    Not saying he won’t adjust or find success in NY, but I think it’s a legitimate concern (especially if you’ve never met the man).

    “what if we pilfered baron davis for the expiring contract of marbury. just saying theoretically, good move/bad move?”

    I’d say bad move. Davis is maybe a top 10 PG (off the top of my head), but that’s not really someone you screw up the cap situation for. He’s also getting a bit older with an injury history.

    “For the folks who worry about D’antoni’s history of not using the bench, that is only a bad thing when we see what is on the bench. If the young guys are benched that would be bad. Benching Randolph, the JJ’s, Collins, possibly Curry and Marbury might be a good thing.”

    I think we’ll see Robinson, Lee, and hopefully Balkman plenty and Chandler if he learns the word pass. I sort of doubt D’Antoni came to NY with the idea that Curry, Randolph, Marbury, and Crawford were actually a great combo that just needed a better coach, but nothing would suprise me anymore.

    “Even in the short-term, like others have said, we shouldn’t be bottom-feeders next year. We have basically the same roster that won 33 games in 2006-2007, except the young guys are more developed, we have the draft pick and we have a competent coach…”

    I think the Knicks could maybe challenge for the 8th seed next season. A good rookie and a good trade, a few other teams fail to live up to expectations and maybe they challenge for the playoffs. I’ve basically thought that way since the last time they made the playoffs, though, and bottoming out and getting another high lottery pick might be good. Ricky Rubio is Nash-like wizard with the ball (without the outside shot) and could lead the NBA in steals, he has buyout issues but is eligible for next year’s draft.

    “It seems like oj mayo would have been a no brainer choice if we dont get a top-2 pick”

    Yeah, Crawford and Mayo running around shooting jumpers is exactly what we need: miss as many shots as you can in 7 seconds or less. At least DLee would surely be the best offensive rebounder in the league…

    Seriously, I think Mayo has the character to be a difference maker at the NBA level, but I don’t know why he’s a great fit for D’Antoni’s system. I think Bayless is a better fit (ala Leandrinho). Mayo has as good a chance as being a 20 ppg 40% fg% SG as he does of being an All-NBA SG. I wouldn’t mind him, but I’m not sure he’s a no-brainer.

    “After this hire, grabbing Derrick Rose in the draft would just seem like the stars aligning.”

    Rose would be amazing, but Beasley also might be able to play a Shawn Marion role. Depends on how dedicated he is defensively.

    “the next several guys have many question marks and probably wouldn’t go higher than 5 or 6 in a typical draft”

    I don’t know, Bogut went ahead of Paul and Williams. He may not be, but Lopez could be as good as Bogut. Taking a center (especially a “soft” one) high scares me about as much as taking a QB high, though.

    “But if Donnie Walsh will take my call, I’d lobby for Anthony Randolph. He hasn’t had the exposure, but even though he’s just 18 he played very well as a freshman… at 6′11 he could play anything in the frontcourt… at the high-end, a Kirilenko, or a taller Shawn Marion with more of a post-up game. At the low end, maybe Andray Blatche…”

    Or a Jonathan Bender. That might scare Walsh off, but who knows.

    Reply to this comment.
  28. Avatar Frank O. -

    I think Walsh is recognizing what most people on this blog have recognized for more than a year:
    The Knicks’ core is Lee, Balkman, and Robinson, and that Crawford, Chandler and even Jeffries will fit well into a running system as well.
    Play your best five players. None of this sixth man crap.
    And anyone expecting Marbury to be with this team very long is smoking some good stuff.

    Reply to this comment.
  29. Avatar caleb -

    I think Jonathan Bender would have been a very good pro if his knee had held up, but then who knows…

    Bogut is much more physical than Lopez, but not as versatile a scorer… But that’s a decent comparison. If Bogut had been drafted #5 behind the guys you mentioned, no one would be complaining. I think Lopez will be around that level. I call him a safe pick because when you’re 7 feet tall with decent skills, at least you can play in the NBA — there’s less risk than a guard, who could be out of the league before you know it.

    Reply to this comment.
  30. Avatar jon abbey -

    “D’Antoni talked Kerr into the Shaq deal. Doesn’t he deserve some credit for Phoenix’s demise too?”

    not really, because the real problems came before that, giving away Kurt Thomas in the offseason was huge. if they’d just kept him, not only would they have two more number 1s now, but they wouldn’t have had to roll the dice on the corpse of the Diesel.

    Reply to this comment.
  31. Avatar retropkid -

    D’Antoni is going to find/attract some talent from Europe… New York should be very attractive to European players and we have Frederic Weis-phobia institutionally….D’Antoni can change that.

    Our roster will look very different in two years,regardless of the rook we pick up this year in the draft — Mayo, Love, Rose, Beasley, Lopez — any of them is can help right now.

    The best news is that the Knicks will be less painful to watch, the games will be up-tempo..and there is nobody left to hate other than Dolan…

    Reply to this comment.
  32. Avatar Z -

    “there is nobody left to hate other than Dolan…”

    Even with Ghandi as coach, I’d still find it impossible to root for Zach Randolph.

    And Marbury has turned me off more in the past four years than even Isiah did.

    I see it as one down and two to go…

    Reply to this comment.
  33. Avatar Z -

    Jon– true about the source of the Suns 2008 problems. My point was really less about your comment, and more to the Knickerblogger family of posters that condemned the Shaq trade as:

    “…we all, more or less, agree that this is a horrible trade for the Suns, trading the better, younger player on a team with the best record in the Western Conference for an older, worse player who, as a kicker, is not just injury prone, but currently injured. What I wonder, though, is this such a bad trade that it is even worse than any Isiah trade?” (2/6/08)

    Many of those who “all agree” that the Shaq deal was worse than anything Isiah had ever brought upon the knicks are excited by the hiring of the main culprit of the deal.

    Reply to this comment.
  34. Avatar caleb -

    Even if its true that d’antoni was a force behind the shaq trade (”defeat is an orphan”)I don’t see it as a big concern, since he won’t be running personnel here. Unlike kerr, We have a pro in that job.

    Reply to this comment.
  35. Avatar T-Mart -

    “and bottoming out and getting another high lottery pick might be good. Ricky Rubio is Nash-like wizard with the ball (without the outside shot) and could lead the NBA in steals, he has buyout issues but is eligible for next year’s draft”

    Lets hope this is this years strategy. Esp in light of having no pick in 2009 we really gain a lot more by tanking this season, continuing to develop our young players, getting another fabulous pick, and then putting our cards in order to win in ‘09. (as opposed to eaking out the 8th spot).

    Reply to this comment.
  36. Avatar Danisrob -

    If we don’t get a top two maybe trade down and try get Kevin Love, great fit for D’Antoni’s system, and maybe a point guard later on?

    Reply to this comment.
  37. Avatar dave crockett -

    “Many of those who “all agree” that the Shaq deal was worse than anything Isiah had ever brought upon the knicks are excited by the hiring of the main culprit of the deal.”

    I started to bring that up, but decided against it because the bigger sin is Stoudemire’s utter unwillingness to defend for an entire series. That’s what lead to the Shaq deal in my opinion (and the Kurt Thomas acquisition before that). The specifics of the deal have been done to death, but what lead to it is a legit bone to pick with D’Antoni.

    Shawn Marion was right. D’Antoni bent over backwards to accommodate Stoudemire. I don’t think Marion’s public spats were about Nash so much as Stoudemire. Marion played out of position defensively to accommodate Stoudamire. Marion called D’Antoni on it and coach figured he could cover up with Grant Hill and Boris Diaw–oops.

    As Caleb mentioned, without power over trades this may be less a problem in NY. But then maybe it will be. We don’t know how well D’Antoni will work with any new GM–especially since D’Antoni is Walsh’s hire and not the GMs.

    Reply to this comment.
  38. Avatar DRed -

    Kevin Love is way too slow and unathletic to play in D’Antoni’s system.

    Reply to this comment.
  39. Avatar jon abbey -

    also the context of the Shaq deal is important to keep in mind, clearly Steve Nash’s window of being a superstar was closing quickly. them going out so quickly this year is on Nash as much as anyone, as with Marion gone and not able to cover for him on D anymore, he wore down way more quickly and was absolutely abysmal in that last game.

    anyway, we don’t have to worry about that here, because with no window at all, you can’t have a window closing… :)

    Reply to this comment.
  40. Avatar Matthew -

    Based on Jackson’s career as a commentator, I’d have to think he’d be a terrible in-game coach. His comments are not very insightful. So if he’s a good coach, it only happens after a lot of gameplanning and practice. He’s not going to notice what the opponent is doing to his team and adjust. Because his commentator is nothing but the most vague cliches out there.

    Reply to this comment.
  41. Avatar Ray -

    Listen guys. Smell the Mayo with me. This kid is going to get bigger and stronger in time. He will work hard, shoot the J and play Defense( MAde the PAC-10 All Defensive Team). Craw does not play D like Mayo. His D will create stops and turnovers .
    Then with his handle he can ignite the fast break. Im talking crazy highlights here. Hes going to grow into a real quality NBA player. How high his star flies i dont know. We’ll have to see but id hate to be the team to pass on a great one. I know the Clipper want him but we can get him at 5 or wherever we draft. He locked down Rose head to head and did the same to Bayless. You tell hm to go and get um and thats what he does. Very coachable and can turn on the the scoring machine at will. Imagine him and Crawford trading 3’s and then Mayo locking the D up on the other end. You dont think that will be contaigious? You dont think this kid has a chip on his shoulder with Rose getting all the hype????? HE coming into the league with something to prove and he will get it done. Hopefully with the Knicks.

    Reply to this comment.
  42. Avatar oboogie -

    “If we don’t get a top two maybe trade down and try get Kevin Love, great fit for D’Antoni’s system, and maybe a point guard later on?”

    “Kevin Love is way too slow and unathletic to play in D’Antoni’s system.”

    Kevin is THE BEST at outlet passing, which is the perfect way to initiate a fast paced offense. I can see him flourishing under D’antoni.

    If you need proof: http://youtube.com/watch?v=QGAY_kHrMok

    Reply to this comment.
  43. Avatar jrock -

    i think the mayo might be rotten - i’m sure ya’ll saw the amount of press about the USC scandal - hi-def tv’s in his dorm room, a range rover, etc. we don’t need someone that’s been coddled in their high school and college career and never been held accountable. character counts, and for all of mayo’s skills, i don’t think he’s got his head screwed on straight enough to be a consistent difference maker.

    Reply to this comment.
  44. Avatar daaarn -

    I’ve already moved on from the coaching situation if only because I know the team won’t be going anywhere anyway next season, as rebuilding/reconstruction hopefully commences in earnest (but if Billy King’s hired, all bets are off).

    Personally, I’m looking toward the draft now. Since I doubt the Basketball Gods are on our side, I’m expecting us to keep the 5th pick (and if we fall, then I know they hate us). That automatically disqualifies us from Rose, and puts us in the thick of the undersized combo guard rally (Mayo, Gordon, Bayless). I don’t see any of them really developing into a pass first 1, and I don’t think we need another shoot-happy scorer, so I’d suggest trading down a couple spots and nab Augustin or maybe even Love. However, I’m not particularly sure on either of those 2 tho, b/c they’re either undersized, or not as athletic, but I think they’re skilled and have a good enough work ethic to at least contribute constructively to the team.

    Reply to this comment.
  45. Avatar David Crockett -
    Author Comment

    Boy, the next few weeks for this couldn’t be more interesting or more uncertain.

    * Who will join D’Antoni’s staff? Did Walsh subtly suggest that a defensive-oriented coach might be a wise move?
    * Who is the right GM to work with D’Antoni?
    * Will NY trade down in the draft if their pick is outside the top 2-3? (I’d guess the probability went up substantially with D’Antoni’s hiring.)
    * What will the team do with Herb Williams?

    Reply to this comment.
  46. Avatar David Crockett -
    Author Comment

    That last question being the critical one of course.

    Reply to this comment.
  47. Avatar Duff Soviet Union -

    “think the mayo might be rotten - i’m sure ya’ll saw the amount of press about the USC scandal - hi-def tv’s in his dorm room, a range rover, etc. we don’t need someone that’s been coddled in their high school and college career and never been held accountable. character counts, and for all of mayo’s skills, i don’t think he’s got his head screwed on straight enough to be a consistent difference maker.” Look, EVERY college player worth his salt gets these kind of “benefits”. Every single one. I don’t know why these “scandals” are even considered news anymore. Wake me up when a highly rated college player actually is playing for free. Just one of the things I hate about college basketball. At least the NBA admits their players are millionaires. OJ Mayo might be a bust but it won’t be because of this shit. If you looked through bank accounts etc of other players I’m guessing you’d find the same stuff anywhere.

    Reply to this comment.
  48. Avatar W.C. -

    The difference between the Shaq trade and anything that Thomas did is that you could at least make a case for it.

    Nash is getting old and the Suns legitimately only had this season and next to win it all. Losing Thomas put the Suns in a no win situation. So it made some sense to take a major risk on another big man. They weren’t risking the future at all because they only had 2 more years to win it all anyway and they still have Amare for the rebuilding period that starts after Shaq and Nash are done.

    It didn’t work, but it doesn’t matter. They would not have won if they didn’t make a move anyway.

    Reply to this comment.
  49. Avatar caleb -

    “We don’t know how well D’Antoni will work with any new GM–especially since D’Antoni is Walsh’s hire and not the GMs.”

    I’m just curious — has Walsh specifically said he’s going to hire a GM? What, then, will Walsh do? Crunch the numbers on pricing season ticket plans? Pick curtain colors for the luxury suites?

    I guess he was fine with a power-sharing agreement in Indiana, but it seems like he left at least in part because he was sick of it.

    How do you think job duties would be split, between Walsh and a GM?

    re: Love, he’s a good player and well worth it to someone in the second half of the lottery, but he’s too small to play center, too slow to play SF and too whatever it is to guard anyone… I don’t think he’ll ever be as good as Lee or (gulp!) even Randolph. I expect he’ll be throwing those beautiful passses somewhere else.

    re: next year — Of course it would be better to have another high pick, but I oppose tanking on principle. Anyway, it’s hard to predict without knowing what the summer brings, but I’d be surprised if we’re in the bottom 5 again — I’d guess we’ll fall somewhere between the 10th and 15th worst record*…

    *Unless Marbury is injured again and/or traded and not replaced with another point guard. Then… we’re just an injury or a few bad breaks away from another 23-win campaign.

    Reply to this comment.
  50. Avatar caleb -

    “They would not have won if they didn’t make a move anyway.”

    hmmm… they were #1 in the West before the trade, so I don’t know you can say that for certain. It’s true, the closing schedule was tougher, but you never know… If they’d held one of the top 3 spots, they’d have been playing Denver, Dallas or Houston in the 1st round, and probably avoiding the Spurs altogether.. .

    Reply to this comment.
  51. Avatar Ben R -

    If we do not get a top two pick what about trying to trade it to Toronto for Calderon.

    Calderon split time evenly with Ford in the playofs and I see Toronto not wanting to give him the 10 mil+ that he will demand. I think a Rose+#5 pick sign and trade for Calderon would work pretty well.

    He is the closest player to Nash and other than Paul and Williams the best PG under 30 in the league.

    Reply to this comment.
  52. Avatar Latke -

    calderon won’t demand 10 million. Maybe 8. Can the knicks really make a move for a starting point guard with marbury still on the team?

    I can’t really understand what you’re trying to say in that last sentence, but there are several other pgs besides paul and williams who are better than calderon - Baron Davis, tony parker, arenas.

    I really hope we go after sergio rodriguez in portland. He’s not getting any real burn bc Jack and Blake are the first 2 pgs. Portland might consider swapping our, say #6 for Rodriguez and mid first rounder. They have too many players on their roster. Rodriguez comes cheap, and can backup marbury for a year.

    Reply to this comment.
  53. Avatar Ben R -

    Rodreigez could be gotten easier than that. He has no place in Portland anymore.

    Also I would take Calderon over Arenas, or Baron Davis anyday and I would say Parker is about even.

    Reply to this comment.
  54. Avatar cwod -

    Yeah, Calderon is seriously ridiculous. I think in April he had 66 assists and one turnover.

    Reply to this comment.
  55. Avatar TheTruthSquad -

    Kerr was playing for Arizona and he and Sarver became buddies then. Btian Colanglo when Sarver bought the teaqm and he wanted his buddy Kerr so he forced Brian out and Kerr in, the next year. Kerr wanted to run the Suns from the bedroom of his mansion in San Diago and that pissed D’Antone off. So, Kerr told Mike he was the boss and to shut up and do as he was told.
    Kerr and Sarver will bring in an assistant coach for about 2 mil so Sarver will save 2 mil over what he was paying D’Antone and Kerr has complete control of the Suns. And D’Antone is happy with his 6 mil in New York working for a GM that is not a dumb ass

    Reply to this comment.
  56. Avatar Thomas B. -

    Caleb said:

    “He’s listed the five NBA fan websites he thinks are “consistently good.” Something is missing, or maybe Owen just hasn’t been posting enough…”

    Or maybe you have been posting too much :-). Just kidding buddy.

    Reply to this comment.
  57. Avatar bud -

    The only things that matter are acquiring talent now and facilitating the acquisition of talent in the future. D’Antoni doesn’t matter.

    Reply to this comment.
  58. Avatar Owen -

    “The only things that matter are acquiring talent now and facilitating the acquisition of talent in the future. D’Antoni doesn’t matter.”

    That might be exactly why he matters, he might be the guy to attract better players.

    I don’t think he will make much of a difference with the players we have now, but it at least acts as a bit of a palate cleanser after Isiah…

    Reply to this comment.
  59. Avatar Z -

    “I’m just curious — has Walsh specifically said he’s going to hire a GM? What, then, will Walsh do? Crunch the numbers on pricing season ticket plans? Pick curtain colors for the luxury suites?”

    Yeah– Isiah was president/GM until he became coach as well and hired Grunwald to effectively serve as GM. Was Grunwald fired along with Thomas? Checketts, when he ran the zoo, was also responsible for the Rangers, the Forum, etc…, all stuff presumably out of Walsh’s jurisdiction. I’m not sure what purpose a GM would serve except to bring in another name brand to attract potential free-agents…

    “What will the team do with Herb Williams?”

    The reason I’m up right now posting is because I can’t sleep without the answer…

    Reply to this comment.
  60. Avatar Ted Nelson -

    “I’m just curious — has Walsh specifically said he’s going to hire a GM? What, then, will Walsh do? Crunch the numbers on pricing season ticket plans? Pick curtain colors for the luxury suites?”

    I suppose that, at least during the “rebuilding” period, Walsh would make the actual personnel decisions, but the GM would oversee the day to day operations. Walsh is, what, 70-something? Even with a reputation for hard work, I doubt he has the energy anymore (or wants) to spend 8+ hours a day running the basketball operations and also rebuild the team/make the important decisions. After a while, once the team is “rebuilt,” it might transition into more of a Larry Bird/Donnie Walsh dynamic.

    “re: next year — Of course it would be better to have another high pick, but I oppose tanking on principle. Anyway, it’s hard to predict without knowing what the summer brings, but I’d be surprised if we’re in the bottom 5 again — I’d guess we’ll fall somewhere between the 10th and 15th worst record*… ”

    I’m also not necessarily for tanking and have argued many times (based on the experience of other organizations, including Walsh’s Pacers) that you don’t have to bottom out to rebuild.

    Bottoming out does seem to be back in fashion now after a string of strong drafts (after going out of fashion after a string of weak drafts). Hell, even Atlanta finally got an impact player in the top 3. Theoretically, I think you can rebuild successfully using a few different strategies involving either bottoming out or becoming competitive right away (some luck and timing is involved, but it’s not like you have to be the 72 win Bulls to get home court in the east).

    I do agree that with D’Antoni at the helm and the Knicks’ offensive “talent” it’s hard to imagine them among the league’s bottom 5, unless:
    1. There’s a complete “chemistry” meltdown between D’Antoni and the fat, lazy, stoner NYKs. Unlikely considering D’Antoni’s reputation, but possible given the roster’s complete lack of dedication. D’Antoni’s going to have to walk a thin line between easy going but motivating and frat house NYKs.
    2. Walsh/D’Antoni make a collaborated effort to trade / cut / bench all the veterans.

    “If we do not get a top two pick what about trying to trade it to Toronto for Calderon.”

    Interesting idea. The Raps seem pretty intent on keeping Calderon. However, if the Knicks overpay in terms of compensating Calderon (taking on big long-term contracts for borderline all-stars…) and in terms of players (maybe Colangelo likes someone in the top 5-8 more than Calderon?) maybe they could get him.
    Should they? I don’t know. On the one hand, Calderon isn’t someone I would blow the post-2010 cap situation for and Toronto is likely going to fight to keep him. On the other, he’s a very good PG who could be a nice complement to a “franchise player” like, say, Beasley. Especially under D’Antoni.

    So, I guess I might be more attracted by Calderon if the Knicks actually did get a top 2 pick, used in on Beasley, and somehow still managed to land Calderon (basically by overpaying).
    In terms of trading a 5-8 pick for Calderon, I’m a bit ambivelent. You don’t risk drafting a total bust, but you also give away what is likely the Knicks’ best short-term chance at adding an All-NBA type player and risk medium-term mediocrity if Calderon ends up as your “franchise player” surrounded by Lee, Robinson, Chandler, Balkman, maybe one or two of the vets, and new acquisitions that don’t pan-out as well as expected.

    “Portland might consider swapping our, say #6 for Rodriguez and mid first rounder.”

    Trading down from a likely top 5 pick to likely #13 for a 3rd string PG who has only shown one NBA-caliber skill? Don’t get me wrong, I like Rodriguez and think he could be a good fit in a young, reuilding version of the system D’Antoni used in Phoenix, but I don’t think you have to give up that much for him. Portland has openly expressed the desire to acquire one PG who combines the strengths of Jack, Blake, and Rodriguez. Maybe the Knicks could help them in that search in a three-way trade, or maybe if D’Antoni/Walsh aren’t high on Balkman or Chandler Portland would take them?

    “That might be exactly why he matters, he might be the guy to attract better players. I don’t think he will make much of a difference with the players we have now, but it at least acts as a bit of a palate cleanser after Isiah…”

    Not only do I think he’ll attract Bostan Nachbar-types (sarcasm), but I also think he might be the best guy to make a few of Randolph, Curry, Crawford, and Marbury attractive in an inseason/end of 08/09 trade.

    If you’re going to motivate those guys, telling them they can shoot almost as much as they want is the way to do it (less so Crawford, who’s already fairly motivated and seems to thrive in a structured system, like LB’s, I mean it could be scary to encourage him to shoot more).

    For example, imagine Marbury is averaging 20 ppg and 8 apg in his contract year, maybe a team like Cleveland gives the Knicks expiring contracts and a 1st and/or an attractive player (Gibson, Varejao). Maybe, best case scenario I know, if Randolph or Curry is putting up 20 ppg on an 8th seed the Knicks can get a Jason Richardson-Brandan Wright kind of deal for him…

    Reply to this comment.
  61. Avatar GiantKnickFan -

    Ideal situation- Somehow land Derrick Rose which may take the #1 pick. The only way hes not #1 is if the team whos picking there really doesnt need a PG. If we land 2-5 and cant get Rose, trade down and jettison one of our undesirables (Randolph, Jeffries, Q, Curry). Draft Bayless, Mayo, Lopez and Westbrook is a dark horse for me because hes a freakish athelete and a legit shut down defender and is also a big time finisher.

    *Marbury’s contract might be very valuable come trade deadline, might be able to nab a good player a la Pau Gasol. Or we can just let it come off the books instead of trading him now unless we wanna just get rid of him if we get Rose.

    Randolph Morris and Mardy Collins’s future’s also look bleak

    Reply to this comment.
  62. Avatar retropkid -

    kinda tough to fantasize about our pick when we don’t know our spot….

    Reply to this comment.
  63. Avatar o_boogie -

    “Ideal situation- Somehow land Derrick Rose which may take the #1 pick. The only way hes not #1 is if the team whos picking there really doesnt need a PG. If we land 2-5 and cant get Rose, trade down and jettison one of our undesirables (Randolph, Jeffries, Q, Curry).”

    I cannot see myself being a knicks fan for much longer if we pass up the opportunity to take beasley.

    Reply to this comment.
  64. Avatar Brian Cronin -

    I hope Herb Williams will stick around. I think he might, as well (although probably not).

    Reply to this comment.
  65. Avatar Ted Nelson -

    “I cannot see myself being a knicks fan for much longer if we pass up the opportunity to take beasley.”

    Yeah, I would be miserable watching Rose fly down the court and hit Chandler/Balkman/Curry with an alley-oop pass or Nate with a wide open 3… I don’t even think I could bring myself to watch.

    Reply to this comment.
  66. Avatar o_boogie -

    Ted:

    I was referring to “If we land 2-5 and cant get Rose, trade down”.

    Obv, Rose is best case scenario. However, passing up Beasley with #2 would be a mistake.

    Reply to this comment.